Insulation for Evacuated tube solar water heater piping

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Insulation for Evacuated tube solar water heater piping Bob F 05-14-2008
Posted by Bob F on May 14, 2008, 9:03 pm
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I am remodeling a bathroom, and have inserted a couple copper pipes from the
basement to the attic for use in the possible future addition of solar water
heating. I am wondering what insulation would be most appropriate to put around
these pipes before I wall them in. I understand these heaters deal in pretty hot
water, so I am not sure that the standard foam insulation would be appropriate.
Any experience in this?




Posted by Neon John on May 15, 2008, 4:33 am
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>I am remodeling a bathroom, and have inserted a couple copper pipes from the
>basement to the attic for use in the possible future addition of solar water
>heating. I am wondering what insulation would be most appropriate to put around
>these pipes before I wall them in. I understand these heaters deal in pretty
hot
>water, so I am not sure that the standard foam insulation would be appropriate.
>Any experience in this?

Unless you plan on running a highly pressurized system (15 psi is only
something like 245 deg), you're not going above the boiling point of water
regardless of the efficiency of the collector. Therefore the standard black
foam sleeving from the big box stores will work fine.

I hope this plumbing is going through an inside wall. If you live in cold
country and the pipe is in an outside wall the insulation won't keep it from
freezing. It'll only slow it down a little.

If we'd talked earlier I'd have suggested PEX instead of copper. Cheaper,
easier to install, tolerant of moderate freezing and infinitely more durable
in the face of contaminated water, what will be eventually circulating in that
system unless you pay attention to water chemistry.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
If stupidity hurt then they'd be putting morphine in the water supply.


Posted by Bob F on May 15, 2008, 12:05 pm
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>
>>I am remodeling a bathroom, and have inserted a couple copper pipes from the
>>basement to the attic for use in the possible future addition of solar water
>>heating. I am wondering what insulation would be most appropriate to put
>>around
>>these pipes before I wall them in. I understand these heaters deal in pretty
>>hot
>>water, so I am not sure that the standard foam insulation would be
>>appropriate.
>>Any experience in this?
>
> Unless you plan on running a highly pressurized system (15 psi is only
> something like 245 deg), you're not going above the boiling point of water
> regardless of the efficiency of the collector. Therefore the standard black
> foam sleeving from the big box stores will work fine.
>
> I hope this plumbing is going through an inside wall. If you live in cold
> country and the pipe is in an outside wall the insulation won't keep it from
> freezing. It'll only slow it down a little.
>
> If we'd talked earlier I'd have suggested PEX instead of copper. Cheaper,
> easier to install, tolerant of moderate freezing and infinitely more durable
> in the face of contaminated water, what will be eventually circulating in that
> system unless you pay attention to water chemistry.

If I were to replace this with PEX, what diameter would you recommend? Any
special precautions to guarantee compatibility in the future. It seems that PEX
is not standardized, the ends and crimping methods vary among manufacturers. I
wouldn't want to end up not being able to terminate it in the future when I
actually try to hook it up.



Posted by Neon John on May 15, 2008, 12:35 pm
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>> If we'd talked earlier I'd have suggested PEX instead of copper. Cheaper,
>> easier to install, tolerant of moderate freezing and infinitely more durable
>> in the face of contaminated water, what will be eventually circulating in that
>> system unless you pay attention to water chemistry.
>
>If I were to replace this with PEX, what diameter would you recommend?

the same ID as your copper pipe would get you the same flow rate.

>Any
>special precautions to guarantee compatibility in the future. It seems that PEX
>is not standardized, the ends and crimping methods vary among manufacturers. I
>wouldn't want to end up not being able to terminate it in the future when I
>actually try to hook it up.

I use the system that Lowe's sells simply because I can get it most anywhere
there's a Lowe's. With only one exception. I bought my ring crimpers from an
internet vendor, the name of which escapes me. It does 4 sizes in one tool. I
just couldn't see having to buy a $100 tool for each size.

If you don't want to buy the crimp tool, there is the compression fitting
option. The fittings are big and clunky and expensive compared to the crimp
versions but they do work and require no tools.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
What do you call 4 Blondes in an Abrams? Air Tank.


Posted by Steve Ackman on May 15, 2008, 3:07 pm
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09:05:04 -0700, Bob F, bobnospam@gmail.com wrote:

> If I were to replace this with PEX, what diameter would you recommend? Any
> special precautions to guarantee compatibility in the future.

Bear in mind, PEX is only good to about 185F or so.
If you're planning on hotter than that, stick with the
copper.

> It seems that PEX
> is not standardized, the ends and crimping methods vary among manufacturers. I
> wouldn't want to end up not being able to terminate it in the future when I
> actually try to hook it up.

Home Depot sells something called a "Shark Bite" IIRC.
It's made of brass and will connect PEX to PVC, copper,
or CPVC... maybe more. I've used a couple of those, as
well as the plastic "John Guest" type push-in fittings
that Lowes sells.
The plastic ones are way cheaper, but not as versatile.

If you have several scores or hundreds of joints to
make, there's no doubt that the crimp rings are the way
to go, especially if none/few of them are in tight spots.
The crimp tool will easily pay for itself.
For up to a few dozen PEX to PEX, or PEX to IP joints,
the plastic ones at Lowes are the way to go. The
fittings cost more than crimps, but there's no $100
crimp tool to buy.
PEX - "John Guest" - IP thread/solder adapter - copper

The Shark Bites come in tube to tube configurations
as well as tube to pipe thread. I think their biggest
advantage is the instance where you can go
PEX - Shark Bite - copper


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