The scary mathematics behind energy depletion and population growth

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The scary mathematics behind energy depletion and population growth GreenLifeInnovators 11-16-2009
Posted by harry on November 29, 2009, 3:36 pm
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> harry wrote:
> >> harry wrote:
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Personally I think the "tipping point" is near. There's nowhere
> >>>> left to export surplus population. Have you driven across Texas
> >>>> lately? There is *lots* of space left in the world for more
> >>>> people. That said, that does not mean that increasing the world's
> >>>> human population is a good idea.
> >>>>> We just have to keep the starving masses from our own countries
> >>>>> or they will destroy us.
> >>>> To seme extent, this has always been true. That is why we have
> >>>> immigration laws (ineffective as they may be).
> >>>>> The end of the world is nigh. Tee Hee!
> >>>> The odds are, none of us will live long enough to see it. (good
> >>>> news/bad news)
> >>>> Vaughn
> >>> I have never been to Texas. However from Hollywood propaganda it
> >>> seems to be mostly uninhabitable (desert). If the fuel shortage don't
> >>> bring disaster, the water shortage will.
> >> That's a bit like stereotyping the UK from watching "Black Adder". :-D
>
> >> Texas has a mixture of about every terrain and climate you can imagine -
> >> and the folks to our north seem to delight in pointing out that there's
> >> room in Ontario for the entire present population of the planet -
> >> without crowding.
>
> >> Last time I looked, the planet didn't seem short on water - it's just
> >> not always exactly where we want it. :)
>
> > Blackadder is exactly like the present UK government. A more prophetic
> > TV series would be hard to find. Every character in "Blackadder" is
> > to be found in our crooked, lying, scumbag government.
>
> Ah yes, and just how do you suppose people over here (most of whom are
> essentially ignorant of the political doings in the UK) are able to
> relate to it? :)
>
> > You have got rid of your scumbag gov. we won't get chance 'til next
> > year. I have to tell you, our alternative seems to be a real slippery
> > customer. I don't feel optimistic.
>
> And yet there's some cause for optimism - not that either government
> will miraculously behave well - but that ordinary citizenry in all
> countries will continue to do their best to live up to their own ideals
> and principles.
>
> It seems to be fundamental that those who think they'd like to be the
> center of attention gravitate to politics and government and that those
> same people develop the skills that win elections. Regrettably, they
> don't generally seem to have whatever it takes to use those skills for
> the benefit of their constituents.
>
> > I have visited the USA to meet up with someone I met on Google groups
> > & I know that Hollywood is all lies.
>
> Well of course - fiction is their primary industry! It's important to
> not lose sight of that...
>
> > I mean we watch NCSI and CSI here in the UK. But there are no FAT and
> > UGLY people depicted. Whereas in the US it seemed to me that 50% of
> > the folks were fat or ugly. Some poor sods were both.
>
> Agreed - but again, fiction is a /product/ and the fiction factories are
> in the business of producing a product they think will sell - and it's a
> lot easier to sell handsome/beautiful than fat/ugly.
>
> Superficially at least, 50% of every population falls into the "below
> average" catagory...
>
> > Having said that everyone was very kind and generous to me.
>
> ...and beyond superficialities, it's still possible for the "average"
> person to hold to high ideals and do their best to practice those ideals
> in everyday life. My limited observations have convinced me this is true
> everywhere in the world. As an American, I'm pleased that you were
> treated well here - as I hope you might be pleased to hear that I've
> been well-treated in the UK (and everywhere else I've had opportunity to
> visit and get to know people).
>
> > Strangely they nearly all had machine guns in the basement. Maybe
> > they don't like their neighbours.
>
> I suspect that they like their neighbors about as much and as little as
> people everywhere like their neighbors - and probably for more or less
> the same reasons. I can assure you that not liking a neighbor hardly
> ever results in shooting. :)
>
> I've never seen a full-automatic weapon outside of an official military
> or museum context, although I'm aware that a number of "souvenir" AK-47s
> were brought back from Viet Nam.
>
> There /are/ a lot of firearms in the US - and I think there are
> comprehensible reasons, and although I'm willing to discuss it
> one-on-one, I doubt that usenet would be a particularly good choice of
> venues for that dialog.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

In the UK you can go to university & study politics. I imagine they
must study the topics of lies and deceit, how not to answer a
question, how to maximise one's expenses etc. They get their heads
together and come up with ridiculous ideas and because none of them
has ever seen the real world, they work it up to some no-brainer
policy.
Personally I don't think you should be in government unless you're
fifty years old & have had time to accumulate some common sense.
We now have this encroaching canker of career politicians inflicted on
us bent only in maximising their own fame and fortune.

Posted by vaughn on November 29, 2009, 4:32 pm
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> In the UK you can go to university & study politics. ...

You can do that in the US also.

>... come up with ridiculous ideas and because none of them
> has ever seen the real world, they work it up to some no-brainer
> policy.

In what field of education is this not true? Except for those who get their
education late in life (like myself) everybody emerges from college with a basic
education in their field, but short of real-world experience.

> Personally I don't think you should be in government unless you're
> fifty years old & have had time to accumulate some common sense.

Perhaps so, but that decision is up to the voters; not just you and me.

> We now have this encroaching canker of career politicians inflicted on
> us bent only in maximising their own fame and fortune.

This is how it has been since at least the middle ages; and folks have been
making the same complaint for at least that long.

Regards,
Vaughn.



Posted by Morris Dovey on November 29, 2009, 5:21 pm
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harry wrote:

> In the UK you can go to university & study politics. I imagine they
> must study the topics of lies and deceit, how not to answer a
> question, how to maximise one's expenses etc.

My view is not quite as jaundiced as all that. Those things don't really
require university-level study. I would guess rather that the study is
more directed toward the various forms and structures of government, at
least a smattering of law, and not enough history for the students to
gain the wisdom that comes with an understanding of the consequences of
the choices they will make.

> They get their heads
> together and come up with ridiculous ideas and because none of them
> has ever seen the real world, they work it up to some no-brainer
> policy.

Ah, you touch on the lack-of-wisdom problem. On the other hand, how can
we reasonably expect wisdom of a young person just leaving school?

We can, however, reasonably expect them to at least know what does and
does not constitute ethical behavior, and insist that they conduct
themselves accordingly. If/when they do not, then it is /our/ (your and
my) responsibility to exercise all legal options to deny them the
opportunity for future unwise/unethical behavior.

The operative expression in the US is: "Throw the bums out!"

> Personally I don't think you should be in government unless you're
> fifty years old & have had time to accumulate some common sense.

Regrettably, common sense isn't - and time doesn't bring it, hence the
old adage that "There's no fool like an old fool."

Methinks this is likely to have been a problem since before the first
mammoth was sketched on a cave wall.

> We now have this encroaching canker of career politicians inflicted on
> us bent only in maximising their own fame and fortune.

It seems to me that the only civilized remedy is to replace the unworthy
ones with those who are more worthy. It requires effort and the exercise
of both courage and good judgment on the part of the electorate. Perhaps
ordinary citizens need to become (and remain) more involved in the
candidate selection process.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Posted by Jim Wilkins on November 27, 2009, 2:46 pm
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>
> I have never been to Texas. =A0

I have.

Drove over from Shrevesport, got out at the border and took a leak,
then drove back.

jsw

Posted by vaughn on November 28, 2009, 6:00 pm
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>
> Hah! Even with the population we have, many are living in unsuitable
> places. The only reason they can do it is that they are sustained by
> cheap fossil fuel.
> You can't drink seawater. Cheap fossil fuel can make it drinkable but
> as we all know it's gonna run out at some point.

Dance all you want. It was you who wrote::"There's nowhere left to export
surplus population". I think I, and at least one other, have made the point
that there are plenty of places to export surplus population. Energy & water
are other matters for discussion, but we are NOT yet running out of real estate.

> The farms mentioned above are only there ...

I said nothing about "farms". Actually I wrote "poor farmland". While there is
some agriculture in the area, the land I was describing is 99% unused real
estate; miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles. Western Texas is so
massive and so empty that if you haven't seen it with your own eyes, it is truly
hard for the human mind to comprehend.

> You might want to plot your graphs & see whether we run out of water
> first or fuel.

I will leave that to you.

Vaughn



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