Watt meter recommendation

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Subject Author Date
Watt meter recommendation Tom E 06-30-2008
Posted by Johnny B Good on July 1, 2008, 10:37 am
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> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 02:51:50 +0100, Johnny B Good

> >
> >> I would like to know how much my various appliances are consuming.
> >> Where can I get a device (for the UK) that will measure the energy
> >> consumed by individual devices?
> >
> >> I have looked at things like "Brennstuhl Wattage and current meter
> >> PM 230" and the "Kill-A-Watt", but they look rather cheap, and I'm
> >> not convinced they will accurately measure loads with unusual
> >> waveforms (my computer for one thing).
> >
> >> Any better suggestions?
> >
> >> Tom
> >
> > You're quite right to be suspicious of such meters (that's not to say
> >such digital technology can't provide accurate fractional wattage
> >readiings with extremely distorted waveforms, I'm just saying such
> >accuracy can't be done on the cheap).

> Actually, such accuracy CAN be done on the cheap and the Kill-A-Watt does it
> quite nicely.

> I own several (originally 10, minus whatever have been lost here and there).
> At one time had 10 of 'em hooked in a series daisychain along with a
> GE analog
> "1/4% accuracy class" lab wattmeter and a NIST traceable GE watt-hour
> transfer
> standard meter.

> All 10 instrument read within a digit of one another and they all
> agreed with
> the traceable instruments to within my ability to read them. The
> first meter
> in the chain did read 1 watt higher which accounted for the burden of the
> other 9 plus the losses in the short cords connecting them together.

> It is pretty evident from looking at the internal construction that each
> device is flashed with its own calibration factors during manufacture. That
> means that the current shunt and voltage divider resistors don't have to be
> accurate, just stable. That they are.

That's interesting. Did any of your test loads include the 1 to 15 watt
range? What sort of test loads did you test with (less than unity PF or
narrow conduction angle loadings and so on)?

> OTOH, the very much higher priced Watts Up instrument is garbage once the
> power factor drops much below unity. Price is no indication of quality with
> such instruments.

That's true (FSVO).

> No experience with that Brennstuhl Wattage instrument so I'll not comment.

Same here, but I have to confess that the 20 dollar Kill-A-Watt meter
sounds like the yank equivilent to the £9.99 plug in digital watt meters
available over here in the UK (and Europe since the stores involved are
Aldi, Lidl and Netto), so I rather assumed they'd suffer the same
shortcomings with sub 40 watt loads noted by most owners of such
devices.

The one such meter I have is a DEM1379 and it can be totally misleading
with 11 watt loads and less. Since it can't display fractions of a watt,
it's totally unsuitable for checking the standby power of most wall
warts, particularly the smpsu based designs where it can be as low as
200mW.

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.


Posted by Neon John on July 1, 2008, 5:32 pm
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On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:37:01 +0100, Johnny B Good
>> It is pretty evident from looking at the internal construction that each
>> device is flashed with its own calibration factors during manufacture. That
>> means that the current shunt and voltage divider resistors don't have to be
>> accurate, just stable. That they are.
>
> That's interesting. Did any of your test loads include the 1 to 15 watt
>range? What sort of test loads did you test with (less than unity PF or
>narrow conduction angle loadings and so on)?

My lab standard watt meter isn't accurate down that low but the indications of
small loads consisting of power resistors were appropriate. I have compared
the KAW to an electrodynamics (RMS responding) meter and they agree within
specifications on both square waves and the pseudo-square wave that most
inexpensive inverters produce. I have NOT tried it on a phase angle control.
Just never had the opportunity. Given that the computation gets the
pseudo-square inverter wave correct, it should also handle the phase angle
waveform, or most any waveform for that matter.

I have tested it on highly inductive loads. The closest to a pure inductor
that I have is a very large tape degaussing machine designed to degauss 2" mag
tape reels that TV studios used to use. It has a PF below 0.10, though I
don't recall the exact value off the top of my head. The KAW worked fine and
indicated within tolerance. That overpriced Watts Up went ape-shit, to use a
technical term :-)

It works fine on power capacitors such as motor run caps too. In fact, I'm
going to sit down one day and develop a table of volts vs VA vs PF vs
capacitor value so that I can use the KAW as a capacitor checker. Much better
than multimeter or LCR bridges because it tests the cap under load. As
expected, the Watts Up went ape-shit again.

> Same here, but I have to confess that the 20 dollar Kill-A-Watt meter
>sounds like the yank equivilent to the £9.99 plug in digital watt meters
>available over here in the UK (and Europe since the stores involved are
>Aldi, Lidl and Netto), so I rather assumed they'd suffer the same
>shortcomings with sub 40 watt loads noted by most owners of such
>devices.

I know that the KAW is sold in Europe and England. Really funky looking with
that huge British plug on the back and socket on the front. Memory's fuzzy
but I think that someone tested and told me that the KAW is frequency
sensitive. If that memory is correct, a 50hz unit might not work on 60hz and
vice versa. Too bad. A British unit would be handy for doing 240 volt loads
over here.

>
> The one such meter I have is a DEM1379 and it can be totally misleading
>with 11 watt loads and less. Since it can't display fractions of a watt,
>it's totally unsuitable for checking the standby power of most wall
>warts, particularly the smpsu based designs where it can be as low as
>200mW.

I have a clamp-on combination watt and ammeter. It's a fairly inexpensive unit
that someone on this group recommended. Its specs aren't that high, something
like 5% for watts, but it does meet specs, outstanding for a clamp-on unit. My
only gripe is that it is very slow in displaying the first reading after the
current starts flowing - nearly 10 seconds. Updates are about 2 seconds apart
after that.

I've made up x10, x100 and X1000 coil assemblies to measure small and very
small loads. Each coil has a pair of leads coming out for the potential
connection. I have them made up with male and female plugs as well as gator
clips.

The coils have tested out to be quite accurate as compared to a Fluke 5.5
digit bench meter and a General Radio precision resistor. Certainly more than
good enough for troubleshooting.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
It isn't Global Warming.... It's Jerry Falwell arriving in hell.


Posted by M Q on July 2, 2008, 6:34 pm
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Neon John wrote:

...
> I know that the KAW is sold in Europe and England. Really funky looking with
> that huge British plug on the back and socket on the front. Memory's fuzzy
> but I think that someone tested and told me that the KAW is frequency
> sensitive. If that memory is correct, a 50hz unit might not work on 60hz and
> vice versa. Too bad. A British unit would be handy for doing 240 volt loads
> over here.
...
I have used a US K-A-W to measure 240 volt loads here, but its kind of kludgy:
The load has to be balanced (no neutral current).
You have to wire it up screwy:
The K-A-W measures the current on the neutral, so you have to put one
leg of your hot through the K-A-W neutral, and then connect the K-A-W hot
to your neutral. Multiply the resulting power reading by 2.

If you didn't follow what I was doing, I would recommend not trying it.


Posted by daestrom on July 1, 2008, 6:53 pm
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Tom E wrote:
> I would like to know how much my various appliances are consuming.
> Where can I get a device (for the UK) that will measure the energy
> consumed by individual devices?
>
> I have looked at things like "Brennstuhl Wattage and current meter
> PM 230" and the "Kill-A-Watt", but they look rather cheap, and I'm
> not convinced they will accurately measure loads with unusual
> waveforms (my computer for one thing).
>
> Any better suggestions?
>

Someone over in alt.engineering.electrical did a pretty intensive test of a
couple of 'Kill-A-Watt' units. Compared them with some pretty high-end
instruments and found the 'Kill-A-Watt' was pretty darn good (<2% I think it
was).

The bang-for-the-buck is pretty good for these. Of course, I don't know if
they would work in the UK, but surely their web site can tell you more.

daestrom


Posted by Jim Wilkins on July 3, 2008, 7:30 am
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This article tells how to use the utility's meter to measure small
loads by timing the rotor. Its measurement of high power factors may
not be mathematically correct but it is authoritative since you pay
for whatever it reads. The values of kh on mine are both 7.2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter

Jim Wilkins

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