What REC said: was "lost electricity"

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Subject Author Date
What REC said: was "lost electricity" Steve IA 01-21-2008
Posted by Neon John on January 25, 2008, 7:48 pm
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On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:31:36 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

>Thank you for a (second) real life proof.
>

You're welcome. Looks like Floyd the cyberstalker is still nippin' at your heals
though. Sad and funny at the same time.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Okay, okay, I'll take it back ... UNfuck you!


Posted by Stormin Mormon on January 25, 2008, 9:30 am
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The one time I saw this, the electrician pulled the lead in wire, that had
been from the meter to the panel box. He set the wire on the ground, and
used his Simpson VOM to read from hot to hot -- there was less than
infinity resistance. I didn't see on his meter how many tens or hundreds of
K-ohms, but there would have been current flow, with 220 VAC applied.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


>He's not talking resistance -- he's talking about a short circuit. Please
>be
>sure of your terms before you call someone else names, and insult them.
>
>I've known of houses with broken down insulation in the lead in wire,
>creating a high energy bill. So, it's a real condition.

More total bullshit. That would burn the house down
long before you got the bill. As Mike said, if the
connection where so hot it was shining brightly in the
daylight... and indeed that is what it would take to
create a high energy bill, and it *would* set fire to
something.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com



Posted by Floyd L. Davidson on January 25, 2008, 1:51 pm
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>The one time I saw this, the electrician pulled the lead in wire, that had
>been from the meter to the panel box. He set the wire on the ground, and
>used his Simpson VOM to read from hot to hot -- there was less than
>infinity resistance. I didn't see on his meter how many tens or hundreds of
>K-ohms, but there would have been current flow, with 220 VAC applied.

That may be, but you haven't specified anything
significant. How much resistance makes all the
difference in the world.

But the original point was that a single *connection*
that is corroded and offers a high resistance is a fire
hazard, but will *not* cause a higher power bill.
That's how it works.

For a given run of wire, as you are describing, if there
is enough power lost to leakage between the conductors
to raise the power bill significantly, the insulation is
going to suffer serious damage and soon result in a
direct short. But, until there is a short, it will not
reduce the power available to other loads.

Another issue, which obnoxious John wants to discuss, is
a high resistance cable loop. That's a whole different
beastie, and is a very common problem. It *will*
increase the power bill, and might cause damage to
electric motors that require high torque for starting
(motors driving compressors in refrigeration units are
good example).

These are all significantly distinct problems and should
not be confused with each other. The OP's is correct in
saying that his investigation of high power usage lead
him to discover potentially dangerous problems. His
description did not make it clear enough that he knew
the discovered problems were not the cause of the high
power usage, and that lead to some ornery comments by
Mike, who was technically correct but had misread what
the OP meant.


>--
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
>.
>
>>He's not talking resistance -- he's talking about a short circuit. Please
>>be
>>sure of your terms before you call someone else names, and insult them.
>>
>>I've known of houses with broken down insulation in the lead in wire,
>>creating a high energy bill. So, it's a real condition.
>
>More total bullshit. That would burn the house down
>long before you got the bill. As Mike said, if the
>connection where so hot it was shining brightly in the
>daylight... and indeed that is what it would take to
>create a high energy bill, and it *would* set fire to
>something.
>
>--
>Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
>Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

Posted by Neon John on January 25, 2008, 7:54 pm
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On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:30:41 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

>The one time I saw this, the electrician pulled the lead in wire, that had
>been from the meter to the panel box. He set the wire on the ground, and
>used his Simpson VOM to read from hot to hot -- there was less than
>infinity resistance. I didn't see on his meter how many tens or hundreds of
>K-ohms, but there would have been current flow, with 220 VAC applied.

That wouldn't be unusual if the wire were wet, for example. PVC insulated wire
that
has overheated breaks down and one of the breakdown products is hygroscopic.
Thus,
moisture in the conduit would not be unusual.

That resistance wouldn't be dissipating any significant power, however. Consider
10kohms and 240 volts. (10kohms would be a very low resistance for such a
circumstance so consider it an extreme example) P = Vsquared/R or about 6 watts.
The
bulk of the heating was simple I^2R losses from the current passing through the
conductors and perhaps some conducted heat from the hot joint.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
If stupidity hurt then they'd be putting morphine in the water supply.


Posted by dpb on January 24, 2008, 9:51 pm
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Bob F wrote:
...

> And electrical heaters would heat less, so they would run longer, increasing
> total usage.

Proportionately longer time at lower voltage is still same power...

--

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