Ya gotta laugh. I mean when someone claims first that a product is free
you know that they are lying. TANSTAAFL.

But the real joke is that Steve then goes on to say it's cheap. This is
an admission of cost.

The costs are, if nothing else, picking it up and heating it with wood.
These are both costs as they both involve an energy expenditure.

As they both involve an energy expenditure this actually reduces the
overall efficiency of the generator system.

My point is valid, Steve, you don't have a clue.

Below is my total energy use by the day, week, month and year.

I know where my energy comes from and I know where it goes.

If you can't account for your own energy how can you advise others?

Give wayne back his runners and show us that you actually know what you
are doing.

You accused me of not being able to provide real numbers for what I do.
Despite the fact that you know I can and have done so on many occasions.

I do so again. These are the numbers for all the energy I use. Day,
Week, Month and Year in kWhs

Source Day Week Month Year
Petrol 12.71 88.98 381.36 4639.93
LPG car 40.29 282.03 1208.71 14706.01
LPG house 14.89 104.24 446.76 5435.59
Wood 44.45 311.14 14333.44 16223.52
Electricity 1.20 8.40 36.00 438.00

Some of these are averaged as for example I don't use petrol every day
or drive the car every day. These numbers do not include what I eat.

Notes;

Petrol runs the chain saw, motor cycle, tractor, large and small generators.

Energy values. Petrol 32.0 MJ/L, LPG Car 25.4 MJ/L, LPG House 49MJ/kg,
Wood(20% moisture content) 16MJ/kg.

Electricity input is ~1.2 kWhs/day. I use this number for the use as
well because it is what is required to keep the batteries charged.

It's not hard, Steve, to work these things out. You have a system
similar to mine in energy sources.

I, and I am sure many others, are interested in what we really do.

The question remains "Numbers or Runners?"

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Posted by Steve Spence on January 25, 2007, 9:49 pm

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George Ghio wrote:

> Steve Spence wrote:

>> George Ghio wrote:

>>>>

>>> So you really don't have a clue. It is also amazing that it seems you

>>> can't go for a single day without the generator.

>>>

>> You are right, I don't have a clue as to how you can read but not

>> comprehend (actually I do have a clue, you do it to try to make

>> yourself look good. you are failing). Running the gen everyday is only

>> done in the heating season when I need heat. Since the veggie oil is

>> free, it's a cheap, fairly clean fuel source.

> Ya gotta laugh. I mean when someone claims first that a product is free

> you know that they are lying. TANSTAAFL.

> But the real joke is that Steve then goes on to say it's cheap. This is

> an admission of cost.

> The costs are, if nothing else, picking it up and heating it with wood.

> These are both costs as they both involve an energy expenditure.

yes, picking up the free oil costs us about $0.30 / gallon after
filtering. Logical folks understand free to mean we are not charged for
the oil, but that does not mean there is no end to end cost. For
instance, freecycle is a good source for free goods, but you still have
to pick them up. However, most folks here realize your goal is to not
educate, but to obfuscate.

--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Posted by George Ghio on January 26, 2007, 7:28 am

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Steve Spence wrote:

> George Ghio wrote:

>> Steve Spence wrote:

>>> George Ghio wrote:

>>>

>>>>>

>>>> So you really don't have a clue. It is also amazing that it seems

>>>> you can't go for a single day without the generator.

>>>>

>>>

>>> You are right, I don't have a clue as to how you can read but not

>>> comprehend (actually I do have a clue, you do it to try to make

>>> yourself look good. you are failing). Running the gen everyday is

>>> only done in the heating season when I need heat. Since the veggie

>>> oil is free, it's a cheap, fairly clean fuel source.

>> Ya gotta laugh. I mean when someone claims first that a product is

>> free you know that they are lying. TANSTAAFL.

>> But the real joke is that Steve then goes on to say it's cheap. This

>> is an admission of cost.

>> The costs are, if nothing else, picking it up and heating it with

>> wood. These are both costs as they both involve an energy expenditure.

> yes, picking up the free oil costs us about $0.30 / gallon after

> filtering. Logical folks understand free to mean we are not charged for

> the oil, but that does not mean there is no end to end cost. For

> instance, freecycle is a good source for free goods, but you still have

> to pick them up. However, most folks here realize your goal is to not

> educate, but to obfuscate.

Well Stevie, welcome to Efficiency 101

Efficiency = Useful energy output/input energy.

n = Pout/Pin

Where n = Efficiency ( no units, expressed as %)
Pout = the useful power output
Pin = the total power input

EFFICIENCY-Multiple steps

n(total) = n(1) X n(2) X n(3)dots X n

Where:

n(tot) = the total efficiency of the process
n(1) = the efficiency of the first step
n(2) = the efficiency of the second step
n(3) = the efficiency of the third step
n(n) = the efficiency of the nth (last)step

(n = eta)

In your case this would be on the order of;

n(1) the efficiency of the IC engine used to pick up your "free oil"
n(2) the efficiency of burning wood to heat the oil
n(3) the efficiency of the the engine burning the oil to run a generator
n(4) the efficiency of the generator being run by the engine
n(5) the efficiency of the battery charger
n(6) the efficiency of the battery
n(7) the efficiency of the inverter

The only person obfuscating is you.

TANSTAAFL!

This is education.

How can you expect anyone to take your advice seriously if you can't
account for your own energy use.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Posted by Solar Flare on January 25, 2007, 9:10 pm

Please log in for more thread options

Do you only particpate here to disrupt the groups?

Were you not getting enough attention in your own bulletin board?

> George Ghio wrote:

>>>

>> So you really don't have a clue. It is also amazing that it seems

>> you can't go for a single day without the generator.

> You are right, I don't have a clue as to how you can read but not

> comprehend (actually I do have a clue, you do it to try to make

> yourself look good. you are failing). Running the gen everyday is

> only done in the heating season when I need heat. Since the veggie

> oil is free, it's a cheap, fairly clean fuel source.

> --

> Steve Spence

> Dir., Green Trust

> http://www.green-trust.org

Posted by Steve Spence on January 25, 2007, 9:51 pm

Please log in for more thread options

Solar Flare wrote:

> Do you only particpate here to disrupt the groups?

> Were you not getting enough attention in your own bulletin board?

>> George Ghio wrote:

>>> So you really don't have a clue. It is also amazing that it seems

>>> you can't go for a single day without the generator.

>>>

>> You are right, I don't have a clue as to how you can read but not

>> comprehend (actually I do have a clue, you do it to try to make

>> yourself look good. you are failing). Running the gen everyday is

>> only done in the heating season when I need heat. Since the veggie

>> oil is free, it's a cheap, fairly clean fuel source.

>> --

>> Steve Spence

>> Dir., Green Trust

>> http://www.green-trust.org

I'm only disrupting this little ego masturbation game you and george
like to play. If providing real education to folks is hurting your fun,
I apologize.

--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

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