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convert gen toelect start?
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convert gen toelect start? Eric 04-12-2007
Posted by GregP on April 14, 2007, 12:20 pm
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> I've got a 11hp 5kw McCulloch pull start generator, was wondering if it
> could be converted somehow to use the gen as a starter motor to start the
> engine, then run as a generator?
> Thanks,
> Eric

I remember when the old-style automotive DC generators were used as
starters on small gas engines that weren't originally equipped with
starters (pre-70s). You can't use a modern alternator as a starter,
because it won't work. But if you could somehow find an old belt-
drive 12 volt DC generator, you could use it to start the motor. You
wouldn't need any type of disengaging gear, as it idles along with the
motor when its not being energized as a starter.

It would actually generate 12V output if you care to hook it up with a
cutout regulator, but that shouldn't be necessary, as your motor
likely already has a charging system.

You can buy 12 volt motors such as those used on electric winches, put
a belt-drive pulley on it and use it the same way. Some sort of
clutch might be possible to install, or you may not need one at all.

On the old-style DC generator, there will be a main armature DC output
lug which is the largest terminal. (ignore the smaller field
terminals) This is where you can apply the high-tension 12 volt
current to energize the generator (starter). The other lead is
grounded to the body of the starter. Reversing the polarity will
reverse the rotation of the motor. Be careful not cross polarity with
the rest of your system if you're using the same circuit. You may
have to reverse the physical orientation of the starter to accomplish
this. For starting control, a relay or a heavy-duty switch may be
required, as this starter may draw a few more amps than a purpose-
built starter that would have been made for your engine.

It should crank over your engine at a good speed, and once the engine
is started, it should idle along with no significant load once the
power to it is disconnected.



Posted by Eric on April 17, 2007, 12:02 am
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 GregP wrote:

>> I've got a 11hp 5kw McCulloch pull start generator, was wondering if it
>> could be converted somehow to use the gen as a starter motor to start the
>> engine, then run as a generator?
>> Thanks,
>> Eric
>
> I remember when the old-style automotive DC generators were used as
> starters on small gas engines that weren't originally equipped with
> starters (pre-70s). You can't use a modern alternator as a starter,
> because it won't work. But if you could somehow find an old belt-
> drive 12 volt DC generator, you could use it to start the motor. You
> wouldn't need any type of disengaging gear, as it idles along with the
> motor when its not being energized as a starter.
>
> It would actually generate 12V output if you care to hook it up with a
> cutout regulator, but that shouldn't be necessary, as your motor
> likely already has a charging system.
>
> You can buy 12 volt motors such as those used on electric winches, put
> a belt-drive pulley on it and use it the same way. Some sort of
> clutch might be possible to install, or you may not need one at all.
>
> On the old-style DC generator, there will be a main armature DC output
> lug which is the largest terminal. (ignore the smaller field
> terminals) This is where you can apply the high-tension 12 volt
> current to energize the generator (starter). The other lead is
> grounded to the body of the starter. Reversing the polarity will
> reverse the rotation of the motor. Be careful not cross polarity with
> the rest of your system if you're using the same circuit. You may
> have to reverse the physical orientation of the starter to accomplish
> this. For starting control, a relay or a heavy-duty switch may be
> required, as this starter may draw a few more amps than a purpose-
> built starter that would have been made for your engine.
>
> It should crank over your engine at a good speed, and once the engine
> is started, it should idle along with no significant load once the
> power to it is disconnected.
I had an old early 60's VW that had a generator that was also the starter
if i remember it correctly - i think it was mounted up high and belt
driven
Eric


Posted by Steve Ackman on April 19, 2007, 9:30 pm
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21:02:07 -0700, Eric wrote:

> I had an old early 60's VW that had a generator that was also the starter
> if i remember it correctly -

It WAS a generator (as opposed to alternator), but it
was not also the starter.

The starter was definitely underneath. I guess you
never had to crawl underneath and bang the side of the
solenoid to get it unstuck. I think it was a common
quirk for VW's of that era... or maybe it was more
common in the ones in the north exposed to salt.

What I remember MOST was that I could fill the tank
for less than $3.

--
centrifugal advance distributor
dual exhaust headers
oversize jugs to 1650cc
heavy-duty clutch
25 minutes to drop the engine, 35 minutes to put it
back in.

Posted by Derek Broughton on April 20, 2007, 9:17 am
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Steve Ackman wrote:

> 21:02:07 -0700, Eric wrote:
>
>> I had an old early 60's VW that had a generator that was also the starter
>> if i remember it correctly -
>
> It WAS a generator (as opposed to alternator), but it
> was not also the starter.
>
> The starter was definitely underneath. I guess you
> never had to crawl underneath and bang the side of the
> solenoid to get it unstuck.

LOL. I remember it well - ours was a VW camper, and Dad kept a large wrench
in the back specifically for thumping the solenoid.

> I think it was a common
> quirk for VW's of that era... or maybe it was more
> common in the ones in the north exposed to salt.

Could have been.
--
derek

Posted by GregP on April 14, 2007, 12:31 pm
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> I've got a 11hp 5kw McCulloch pull start generator, was wondering if it
> could be converted somehow to use the gen as a starter motor to start the
> engine, then run as a generator?
> Thanks,
> Eric

If your generator is actually an alternator, no. Alternators can not
be practically driven as motors.

If your generator uses brushes instead of diodes to convert the
current to DC, probably possible, in fact, most of the older
generators used this method for starting before alternators became
popular.

The other big problem is the voltage. A winding designed to generate
115-230 volts DC would need a similar voltage going in to use it as a
starter.

How to wire it as a starter would be a tricky thing to do without a
good deal of care and attention. If it's newer than about 30-40
years, I'd say don't take the risk, as it will probably destroy some
delicate regulator or relay somewhere.


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