greywater heat recovery system

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Subject Author Date
greywater heat recovery system boustephane 03-07-2008
Posted by Balanced View on March 9, 2008, 7:52 pm
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boustephane@hotmail.com wrote:
>> The S4-60 model has two shorter coils on the drain pipe. The drain pipe
>> runs through one and then the other so the greywater side is in 'series'.
>> The potable water splits and enters both coils and the outlet of both coils
>> rejoin to form a common potable outlet. So the potable side is in
>> 'parallel'. The G4-60 has just one long coil that covers the drain pipe
>> length.
>>
>> The G4-60 has more pressure drop for a given flow rate through the potable
>> water side because of the one long coil, as opposed to the lesser pressure
>> drop on the potable water side for the two shorter, parallel coils of the
>> S4-60. That was my concern since we have pretty low water pressure here
>> already, I didn't think I could stand to have the larger pressure drop of
>> the G4-60 model.
>>
>> But with the S4-60 version and the coils in 'parallel', it is not as
>> efficient as the G4-60. Because the drain water is partly cooled by the
>> first coil before it enters the second coil, the second coil doesn't recover
>> as much heat as you would expect. If you have plenty of water pressure,
>> (say > 30 psi), I'd definitely go for the G4-60 version.
>>
>> I only clean it about once a year when I think about it. I suppose some
>> more often wouldn't hurt, but I pretty much just don't pay attention to the
>> thing. As I said before, 'cleaning' for me is to dump a bottle of liquid
>> drain cleaner down the kitchen sink (the nearest drain) and then about a
>> quart of water to flush the cleaner to the GFX from the sink trap.
>>
>> The only condensation problem I could think of would be the cold water in
>> the potable pipe if you have a humid basement situation. But I suppose you
>> could wrap it in simple foam insulation much like pipe insulation in
>> general.
>>
>> daestrom
>> P.S. What type of news-reader are you using? My OE didn't prefix your
>> message lines with the usual '>' mark.
>>
>
>
> Thank you for your precious informations an the time spent to answer
> me.
>
> I am interested in this product but I think it is very expensive (­ >
> 500$ ) for a simple pipe surrounded with another square pipe. I have
> to open a wall to check if my plumbing can allow this tool.
>
> By the way it is possible for Canadian having a grant of 130$ for this
> tool:
>
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residentiel/personnel/renovation-maisons/renovez-admissible-subvention.cfm?attr=4
>
> Thank you again
>
>
> P.S. I use OE for reading news group but using "google groups" web
> site for sending message since my provider Sympatico (Bell Canada)
> remove the possibility to send message to the news group with OE
> (without changing the rate, obviously...).
>

I'm also with sympatico. Sign up with aioe.org, it's a free newsgroup
server, I've been using since
sympatico dumped the newsgroups.

Posted by daestrom on March 10, 2008, 7:37 pm
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> boustephane@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> The S4-60 model has two shorter coils on the drain pipe. The drain pipe
>>> runs through one and then the other so the greywater side is in
>>> 'series'.
>>> The potable water splits and enters both coils and the outlet of both
>>> coils
>>> rejoin to form a common potable outlet. So the potable side is in
>>> 'parallel'. The G4-60 has just one long coil that covers the drain pipe
>>> length.
>>>
>>> The G4-60 has more pressure drop for a given flow rate through the
>>> potable
>>> water side because of the one long coil, as opposed to the lesser
>>> pressure
>>> drop on the potable water side for the two shorter, parallel coils of
>>> the
>>> S4-60. That was my concern since we have pretty low water pressure here
>>> already, I didn't think I could stand to have the larger pressure drop
>>> of
>>> the G4-60 model.
>>>
>>> But with the S4-60 version and the coils in 'parallel', it is not as
>>> efficient as the G4-60. Because the drain water is partly cooled by the
>>> first coil before it enters the second coil, the second coil doesn't
>>> recover
>>> as much heat as you would expect. If you have plenty of water pressure,
>>> (say > 30 psi), I'd definitely go for the G4-60 version.
>>>
>>> I only clean it about once a year when I think about it. I suppose some
>>> more often wouldn't hurt, but I pretty much just don't pay attention to
>>> the
>>> thing. As I said before, 'cleaning' for me is to dump a bottle of
>>> liquid
>>> drain cleaner down the kitchen sink (the nearest drain) and then about a
>>> quart of water to flush the cleaner to the GFX from the sink trap.
>>>
>>> The only condensation problem I could think of would be the cold water
>>> in
>>> the potable pipe if you have a humid basement situation. But I suppose
>>> you
>>> could wrap it in simple foam insulation much like pipe insulation in
>>> general.
>>>
>>> daestrom
>>> P.S. What type of news-reader are you using? My OE didn't prefix your
>>> message lines with the usual '>' mark.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your precious informations an the time spent to answer
>> me.
>>
>> I am interested in this product but I think it is very expensive (­ >
>> 500$ ) for a simple pipe surrounded with another square pipe. I have
>> to open a wall to check if my plumbing can allow this tool.
>>
>> By the way it is possible for Canadian having a grant of 130$ for this
>> tool:
>>
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residentiel/personnel/renovation-maisons/renovez-admissible-subvention.cfm?attr=4
>>
>> Thank you again
>>
>>
>> P.S. I use OE for reading news group but using "google groups" web
>> site for sending message since my provider Sympatico (Bell Canada)
>> remove the possibility to send message to the news group with OE
>> (without changing the rate, obviously...).
>>
>
> I'm also with sympatico. Sign up with aioe.org, it's a free newsgroup
> server, I've been using since
> sympatico dumped the newsgroups.

Hmmm.... When I try to 'reply' to your messages, OE properly indents the
'quoted text' :-) But 'boustephane' messages with 'google groups doesn't (I
guess because its web groups?)

TTYL

daestrom


Posted by Bob F on March 16, 2008, 2:39 pm
Please log in for more thread options

news:47d5c61b$0$24119
>>> P.S. I use OE for reading news group but using "google groups" web
>>> site for sending message since my provider Sympatico (Bell Canada)
>>> remove the possibility to send message to the news group with OE
>>> (without changing the rate, obviously...).
>>>
>>
>> I'm also with sympatico. Sign up with aioe.org, it's a free newsgroup server,
>> I've been using since
>> sympatico dumped the newsgroups.
>
> Hmmm.... When I try to 'reply' to your messages, OE properly indents the
> 'quoted text' :-) But 'boustephane' messages with 'google groups doesn't (I
> guess because its web groups?)

google groups does something funny with the postings that OE can't handle
correctly. I've been seeing it for months.



Posted by daestrom on March 10, 2008, 7:40 pm
Please log in for more thread options

>
> The S4-60 model has two shorter coils on the drain pipe. The drain pipe
> runs through one and then the other so the greywater side is in 'series'.
> The potable water splits and enters both coils and the outlet of both
> coils
> rejoin to form a common potable outlet. So the potable side is in
> 'parallel'. The G4-60 has just one long coil that covers the drain pipe
> length.
>
> The G4-60 has more pressure drop for a given flow rate through the potable
> water side because of the one long coil, as opposed to the lesser pressure
> drop on the potable water side for the two shorter, parallel coils of the
> S4-60. That was my concern since we have pretty low water pressure here
> already, I didn't think I could stand to have the larger pressure drop of
> the G4-60 model.
>
> But with the S4-60 version and the coils in 'parallel', it is not as
> efficient as the G4-60. Because the drain water is partly cooled by the
> first coil before it enters the second coil, the second coil doesn't
> recover
> as much heat as you would expect. If you have plenty of water pressure,
> (say > 30 psi), I'd definitely go for the G4-60 version.
>
> I only clean it about once a year when I think about it. I suppose some
> more often wouldn't hurt, but I pretty much just don't pay attention to
> the
> thing. As I said before, 'cleaning' for me is to dump a bottle of liquid
> drain cleaner down the kitchen sink (the nearest drain) and then about a
> quart of water to flush the cleaner to the GFX from the sink trap.
>
> The only condensation problem I could think of would be the cold water in
> the potable pipe if you have a humid basement situation. But I suppose you
> could wrap it in simple foam insulation much like pipe insulation in
> general.
>
> daestrom
> P.S. What type of news-reader are you using? My OE didn't prefix your
> message lines with the usual '>' mark.


Thank you for your precious informations an the time spent to answer
me.

I am interested in this product but I think it is very expensive (­ >
500$ ) for a simple pipe surrounded with another square pipe. I have
to open a wall to check if my plumbing can allow this tool.

By the way it is possible for Canadian having a grant of 130$ for this
tool:
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residentiel/personnel/renovation-maisons/renovez-admissible-subvention.cfm?attr=4

Thank you again




Your welcome. I got mine (>7 years ago) for about $260 from a NYC dealer.
Others have suggested they could make their own, I suppose it's certainly
do-able if you're handy with a torch. Mine isn't really 'square pipe', it's
just 1/2 thick-walled copper pipe that is curved around the drain without
'flattening'. I'm not sure how they soldered each turn to the drain pipe
though...

daestrom


Posted by AJH on March 9, 2008, 6:28 am
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On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:05:21 -0500, "daestrom"

>Initially, my installation was recovering 63% of the grey-water heat
>possible. It has degraded some over time but I find a bottle of foaming
>drain cleaner down the kitchen drain is able to 'clean' the grey-water side
>and restore performance. The last time I measured it, I was getting 51.7%
>of the heat recovery.

How have you based this measurement, on recovering 51.7% of the heat
in the grey water as it leaves the drain/enters the device? I.e. the
temperature of the grey water primary side input is approximately half
the same at output?

AJH


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