my letter to electric car companies

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my letter to electric car companies misterfact@yahoo.com 07-01-2008
Posted by Eeyore on July 2, 2008, 7:15 pm
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Vaughn Simon wrote:

>
> > Isn't nuclear waste a super pollution problem?
>
> No, nuclear waste presents a long-solved engineering problem.
Unfortunately,
> it is presently an unsolved political problem.

Completely true and largely AFAICS due to a lack of will.


> Of course, only recently are people willing to notice the waste pollution
> problem from coal plants. Statistically speaking, we have numerous deaths
every
> year (I can't put a number on it, but likely in the tens of thousands) caused
by
> the pollution from coal plants, and zero from from nuclear plants. I leave the
> rest of the math up to you.

Yes, coal kills thousands every year.

Graham


Posted by Vaughn Simon on July 2, 2008, 6:33 pm
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>
> Okay, don't containers leak eventually? Isn't there a continuing supply of
> waste that exceeds the half life of the previous waste - making the storage
> larger and larger?

First of all, high level nuclear waste should be treated as valuable stuff
and should be reprocessed. This will stretch our fuel supply at the same time
it reduces the Curies that we must pay to store.

Second, you need to understand a simple fact of physics that the anti-nukes
leave out when they try to sell nuclear waste as a "problem" . Highly
radioactive nuclides tend to be those with a short half life. The best start
for dealing with these is for them to be safeguarded on-site for a year or two
while they decay. Less radioactive (usually less dangerous) waste tends to have
a longer half life. This is the stuff that we need to store under the mountain,
but it is less dangerous to transport and store. The anti-nukes love to use the
terms "highly radioactive" and "thousands of years" as if the two naturally went
together.
>
> I mean, I'm sort of for nuclear power, but there are some serious negatives.
> We've already had at least 1.5 melt downs in the world and each individual
> plant is capable of causing the entire world a problem.

Very quickly, I can think of 2 honest-to-goodness large-scale uncontained
meltdowns, not 1.5. There are probably more. The entire world is not yet a
nuclear wasteland.

One happened in the UK (Windscale). You hear virtually nothing about it. It
did not contaminate the entire world.

The second happened in Russia. That accident is best described as a crime.
That plant was a terrible design, and did not even have a containment building.
Nothing of the sort would ever be allowed in the western world. Horrible as it
was, it did not contaminate the entire world. In fact, you can now visit:
www.tourkiev.com/chernobyl.php

TMI was not an uncontained event. Little or no radiation left the grounds.
It did not even come close to contaminating the entire world.

The truth will set you free.
Vaughn



Posted by Eeyore on July 2, 2008, 7:11 pm
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Vaughn Simon wrote:

> >
> > Okay, don't containers leak eventually? Isn't there a continuing supply of
> > waste that exceeds the half life of the previous waste - making the storage
> > larger and larger?
>
> First of all, high level nuclear waste should be treated as valuable stuff
> and should be reprocessed.

Arguable perhaps. Preferably when the high level actinides have seriously lost
their
energy.


> This will stretch our fuel supply at the same time
> it reduces the Curies that we must pay to store.
>
> Second, you need to understand a simple fact of physics that the anti-nukes
> leave out when they try to sell nuclear waste as a "problem" . Highly
> radioactive nuclides tend to be those with a short half life. The best start
> for dealing with these is for them to be safeguarded on-site for a year or two
> while they decay. Less radioactive (usually less dangerous) waste tends to
have
> a longer half life. This is the stuff that we need to store under the
mountain,
> but it is less dangerous to transport and store. The anti-nukes love to use
the
> terms "highly radioactive" and "thousands of years" as if the two naturally
went
> together.
>
> > I mean, I'm sort of for nuclear power, but there are some serious negatives.
> > We've already had at least 1.5 melt downs in the world and each individual
> > plant is capable of causing the entire world a problem.
>
> Very quickly, I can think of 2 honest-to-goodness large-scale uncontained
> meltdowns, not 1.5. There are probably more. The entire world is not yet a
> nuclear wasteland.
>
> One happened in the UK (Windscale). You hear virtually nothing about it. It
> did not contaminate the entire world.

The Windscale fire. It wasn't even a nuclear power reactor but a 'pile' to make
plutonium in a rush to make the 'the bomb'. Nothing like that exists even any
more.


> The second happened in Russia. That accident is best described as a crime.
> That plant was a terrible design, and did not even have a containment building.

Shocking.

The new AREVA EPR design has an 8 foot re-inforced concrete containment building.


> Nothing of the sort would ever be allowed in the western world. Horrible as it
> was, it did not contaminate the entire world. In fact, you can now visit:
> www.tourkiev.com/chernobyl.php

You can indeed. Quite a few films are now coming out of Chernobyl. Further still,
older people who had lived there all their lives were eventually allowed to
return
into the area for their mental health. There have been no examples of huge
numbers
of excess deaths.

The Russian RBMK reactor was nothing more than a 'time bomb'. Nothing like it
would
ever pass Western nuclear inspection.


> TMI was not an uncontained event. Little or no radiation left the grounds.
> It did not even come close to contaminating the entire world.

The radiation released was to say the least 'virtually insignificant'.

Trouble is, that doesn't make good 'news'. So it got hyped up.

Gragam


Posted by on July 2, 2008, 6:37 pm
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wrote:

>
>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:52:02 -0700 (PDT), "misterfact@yahoo.com"
>>
>>>Hello;
>>>
>>> I thought you would like to know of my following activity recently:
>>>
>>> I saw a GEM EV on the street near my home.
>>>
>>> I asked the owner if he charges his car from the sun. He said, "no".
>>>He said he charges it by plugging into his house current every night.
>>>
>>> I then made the following placard and stood by his car while it was
>>>parked on the street. The placard read:
>>
>> Looks like another village has lost its idiot. Happens a lot in this
>> group,
>> for some reason.
>>
>> Michael, I have several electric vehicles, each of which is charged with
>> nuclear energy. It would be entertaining to see you try to plant your
>> sign in
>> front of my place. I kinda wish you would, as I have a nice new 12 gauge
>> shotgun that needs testing.
>
>I'm not trying to be abusive here, but I'm having a difficult time
>understanding the support of nuclear power. Isn't nuclear waste a super
>pollution problem?
>
For the moment, yes. However technology is being developed to re-use
the "spent" fuel for further power generation.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Posted by daestrom on July 2, 2008, 8:21 pm
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Piccolo Pete wrote:
>>
>>
<snip>
>
> Okay, don't containers leak eventually? Isn't there a continuing
> supply of waste that exceeds the half life of the previous waste -
> making the storage larger and larger?
>

Two points. First, the 'highly radioactive' part of the waste has a short
half-life. The long-lived stuff is a much lower activity level. Second,
the half-life of mercury, cadmium and lead (toxic materials from other
industries) is infinite. So which would you want, some low radioactivity
actinides that last for a few thousand years securely stored in containers
designed to last as long as possible, or a bunch of mercury that lasts
forever spewed out from a fossil plant over the countryside.

> I mean, I'm sort of for nuclear power, but there are some serious
> negatives. We've already had at least 1.5 melt downs in the world and
> each individual plant is capable of causing the entire world a
> problem.

Actually there have been several more accidents than '1.5 melt downs'.
Windscale spread contamination to the surrounding grasslands and dairy
cattle. SL-1 killed three men outright in a steam explosion. Fermi I
melted most of the core. And of course TMI and Chernobyl. I could look up
some more, but the point is that these early designs had some accidents and
the technology was improved (well, except for the RBMK, but that's another
story). You probably never heard of these accidents because they *didn't*
cause '...the entire world a problem.'

daestrom


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