my letter to electric car companies

Home Power - Home Power/Home-Made Power for Off-Grid Living. 

Bookmark this page:  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
my letter to electric car companies misterfact@yahoo.com 07-01-2008
Posted by Eeyore on July 2, 2008, 11:51 pm
Please log in for more thread options


daestrom wrote:

> Actually there have been several more accidents than '1.5 melt downs'.
> Windscale spread contamination to the surrounding grasslands and dairy
> cattle.

Not a melt-down though, simply a (mainly) graphite fire.


> SL-1 killed three men outright in a steam explosion.

Not a melt-down either IIRC.


> Fermi I melted most of the core.

Aren't breeders fun ?


> And of course TMI and Chernobyl. I could look up
> some more, but the point is that these early designs had some accidents and
> the technology was improved (well, except for the RBMK, but that's another
> story). You probably never heard of these accidents because they *didn't*
> cause '...the entire world a problem.'

The RBMK (Chernobyl) which is the one the whole world knows most about other
than TMI was simply incompetent engineering, management and operation.

No other RBMK has done anything like it, despite its flaws.

TMI was contained within within design parameters AFAIK.

Graham


Posted by daestrom on July 4, 2008, 8:32 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Eeyore wrote:
> daestrom wrote:
>
>> Actually there have been several more accidents than '1.5 melt
>> downs'. Windscale spread contamination to the surrounding grasslands
>> and dairy cattle.
>
> Not a melt-down though, simply a (mainly) graphite fire.
>
>
>> SL-1 killed three men outright in a steam explosion.
>
> Not a melt-down either IIRC.
>

Which is why I said 'steam explosion'.

When you look at Chernobyl, it wasn't really a 'melt down' either, it was a
steam explosion and graphite fire. A combination of the SL-1 steam
explosion and the fire at Windscale.

The 'graphite fire' at Chernobyl was responsible for a lot of the spread of
contamination, somewhat like Windscale. Most of the immediate deaths were
fire-fighters trying to put out the graphite fire.

>
>> Fermi I melted most of the core.
>
> Aren't breeders fun ?
>

The melt at Fermi I had nothing to do with being a breeder. Other breeders
have been run successfully on an experimental scale.

daestrom


Posted by Eeyore on July 4, 2008, 8:47 pm
Please log in for more thread options


daestrom wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:
> > daestrom wrote:
> >
> >> Actually there have been several more accidents than '1.5 melt
> >> downs'. Windscale spread contamination to the surrounding grasslands
> >> and dairy cattle.
> >
> > Not a melt-down though, simply a (mainly) graphite fire.
> >
> >> SL-1 killed three men outright in a steam explosion.
> >
> > Not a melt-down either IIRC.
>
> Which is why I said 'steam explosion'.
>
> When you look at Chernobyl, it wasn't really a 'melt down' either, it was a
> steam explosion and graphite fire. A combination of the SL-1 steam
> explosion and the fire at Windscale.
>
> The 'graphite fire' at Chernobyl was responsible for a lot of the spread of
> contamination, somewhat like Windscale. Most of the immediate deaths were
> fire-fighters trying to put out the graphite fire.
>
> >> Fermi I melted most of the core.
> >
> > Aren't breeders fun ?
>
> The melt at Fermi I had nothing to do with being a breeder. Other breeders
> have been run successfully on an experimental scale.

Precious few of them ! The UK ones never moved much past 30% load factor IIRC.
And as for sodium leaks ! The Russians have have some sodium cooled reactors in
a few SSNs btw.

Graham


Posted by daestrom on July 4, 2008, 9:15 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Eeyore wrote:
> daestrom wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>> daestrom wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually there have been several more accidents than '1.5 melt
>>>> downs'. Windscale spread contamination to the surrounding
>>>> grasslands and dairy cattle.
>>>
>>> Not a melt-down though, simply a (mainly) graphite fire.
>>>
>>>> SL-1 killed three men outright in a steam explosion.
>>>
>>> Not a melt-down either IIRC.
>>
>> Which is why I said 'steam explosion'.
>>
>> When you look at Chernobyl, it wasn't really a 'melt down' either,
>> it was a steam explosion and graphite fire. A combination of the
>> SL-1 steam explosion and the fire at Windscale.
>>
>> The 'graphite fire' at Chernobyl was responsible for a lot of the
>> spread of contamination, somewhat like Windscale. Most of the
>> immediate deaths were fire-fighters trying to put out the graphite
>> fire.
>>
>>>> Fermi I melted most of the core.
>>>
>>> Aren't breeders fun ?
>>
>> The melt at Fermi I had nothing to do with being a breeder. Other
>> breeders have been run successfully on an experimental scale.
>
> Precious few of them ! The UK ones never moved much past 30% load
> factor IIRC. And as for sodium leaks ! The Russians have have some
> sodium cooled reactors in a few SSNs btw.
>

The US had a sodium plant in a submarine once too. But it was not very
reliable and the primary system was replaced with a conventional light-water
plant.

But breeders don't *have* to use sodium, I think the Canadians are looking
at breeding with their CANDU heavy-water technology.

The number varies with who you read, but between 30 and 40% of the energy
from a typical LWR reactor comes from fuel that was 'bred' in place from the
U-238. Quite a way to go to get over 100%, but it's a start.

daestrom

> Graham


Posted by daestrom on July 2, 2008, 8:35 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Piccolo Pete wrote:
<snip>
>
> I'm not trying to be abusive here, but I'm having a difficult time
> understanding the support of nuclear power.

Not abusive at all. Just a good question.

> Isn't nuclear waste a
> super pollution problem?

Well, think carefully what you mean by 'super pollution problem'.

Is the stuff dangerous? Yes. So is lead, PCB's hexavalent chromium,
mercury and a host of other by-products of our modern world.

Is there a lot of it? The waste from a typical 1000 MWe power plant,
operating for two years, can be put into about three casks the size of a
SUV. It *weighs* several tons, but because uranium is a pretty dense
material (almost 11 times that of water, about 1.4 times that of steel), it
doesn't take up a lot of space. Compare this with the ashes from a coal
plant of comparable size.

Does it stick around for 'thousands and thousands of years'. To some
degree, yes. But it diminishes over time. By ten thousand years, it is
only a tiny fraction of the radioactivity it has today. On the otherhand,
lead-based paint is hazardous forever.

Is it hard to keep track of and keep under control? No, not really. The
material is already encased in the fuel assembly, then put in another
container, and put in a third container for storage or transport.

So, just what is a 'super pollution problem'? Toxins leaking into the soil
in your neighborhood and coming up to the surface in a playground wherer
your kids play? (Love Canal) Or settling ponds soaking into the ground
water contaminating all the wells in an area? (PGE's hexavalent Cr) Many
millions of barrels of oil washing ashore on virgin coastal areas reeking
havoc on the ecology? (Exxon Valdez)

daestrom


Similar ThreadsPosted
electric car companies engaged in planned obsolescence??? August 28, 2008, 1:35 pm
Car companies still cant get it right August 18, 2008, 10:17 am
Electric September 3, 2008, 9:09 pm
Your electric car of the future. June 8, 2008, 7:50 am
ZERO X ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLE October 21, 2008, 7:13 pm
Electric car poll at SustainabilityForum.com April 15, 2007, 1:49 pm
Home Electric Consumption October 1, 2007, 3:59 pm
Electric Co limited power December 23, 2007, 9:35 pm
Electric Heaters at ThomasNet.com May 8, 2008, 6:54 am
Survey on Electric Cars August 6, 2008, 4:25 pm

Contact Us | Privacy Policy
XML SitemapXML Sitemap