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small energy henderson.dwight@gmail.com 01-16-2008
Posted by henderson.dwight@gmail.com on January 19, 2008, 2:09 am
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>
> news:f51211ad-02ca-4593-a57c->bfbf38f57__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_M=
ASK_i?a63jfAD$z__@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> >On Jan 18, 4:11 pm, andre_54...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Jan 16, 10:16 pm, "henderson.dwi...@gmail.com"
>
> >> > Simple effecient ways to convert compressed air to electricity.
> >> > Looking for ideas and info about existing technology.How much
> >> > electricity can be obtained from X volume @ Y psi in KWH?
>
> >> I like to squirt a little diesel fuel into it and let the fireball
> >> push a piston.
> >Energy is free (neither created nor destroyed by humans)! It is our
> >ways of capturing, storing, and using it that is costly. Compressed
> >air appears to be a less costly way of capturing and storing it. Work
> >>with me on this and we might get somewhere without burning any diesel
> >or other fossil fuel. Collaboration sometimes results in progress.
>
> If you gave anyone a clue as to what you were talking about, you might get=
more
> relevant answers. Compressed air is not generally a "less costly way of
> capturing and storing" energy. In fact, it is generally a very expensive w=
ay.
> What on earth are you tolking about?

Anthony has the right idea in pushing water from one tank to another
with air. This would allow the use of microhydroelectric in places
where flowing water does not exist. Trying to find out how much air is
needed for one kilowatthour of electricity is what started this post.
The answer seems rather elusive. Morris came closest so far.

Posted by Eeyore on January 19, 2008, 3:38 am
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"henderson.dwight@gmail.com" wrote:

> Anthony has the right idea in pushing water from one tank to another
> with air. This would allow the use of microhydroelectric in places
> where flowing water does not exist. Trying to find out how much air is
> needed for one kilowatthour of electricity is what started this post.

You don't have the tiniest clue what you're talking about.

Graham


Posted by Tim on January 20, 2008, 2:20 am
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On Jan 18, 4:11 pm, andre_54...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jan 16, 10:16 pm, "henderson.dwi...@gmail.com"
>
> > Simple effecient ways to convert compressed air to electricity.
> > Looking for ideas and info about existing technology.How much
> > electricity can be obtained from X volume @ Y psi in KWH?
>
> I like to squirt a little diesel fuel into it and let the fireball
> push a piston.

Energy is free (neither created nor destroyed by humans)! It is our
ways of capturing, storing, and using it that is costly. Compressed
air appears to be a less costly way of capturing and storing it. Work
with me on this and we might get somewhere without burning any diesel
or other fossil fuel. Collaboration sometimes results in progress.


http://www.theaircar.com/



Posted by Anthony Matonak on January 20, 2008, 5:37 am
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Tim wrote:
> Energy is free (neither created nor destroyed by humans)! It is our
> ways of capturing, storing, and using it that is costly. Compressed
> air appears to be a less costly way of capturing and storing it.

Sure, there's lots of energy out there. Sun shines. Wind blows
Waters flow. Plants grow. All which are "free" in a sense. I
agree that making use of this energy is what costs in money,
time and resources.

I don't see where compressing air is a less costly way to capture
and store energy. Just what source of energy is less costly to
capture and store as compressed air?

I see you attached a link to the MDI aircar. I can't argue about
it's compressed air system except to say that they've been promising
a car in production "next year" for a decade. They might continue to
do this for another decade, or more.

Yes, Tata did invest some money with them. I can't say for certain,
but my best guess is that they wanted the technology and designs
that MDI had put together for low cost car production and not the
engine. Stuff like using plastic composites, gluing the car together
and one-wire controls.

Anthony

Posted by Vaughn Simon on January 20, 2008, 10:30 am
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> Compressed
> air appears to be a less costly way of capturing and storing it.

It only appears that way to you because there is a bit of physics that you
don't understand.

In short:
1) When you compress a gas, it gets hot. That heat is not free, it represents
lost energy, real energy that you put into the system but got nothing in return
for.

2) When you later expand the compressed gas to do work with it, it suddenly
wants that heat back, but it is long-gone. So now the gas cools as it expands,
reducing its ultimate expansion and giving you less work out than you put in to
compress the gas.

There are things that you can do to reduce these thermodynamic losses, but
the losses are always there and the "fixes" can greatly increase the air engine
complexity, size, and weight. So far, compressed air is a losing way to store
and transport energy. Even with our present battery technology, batteries are
looking far more efficient and energy dense than compressed air.

As others have mentioned, that Aircar has been "in development" for over a
decade. In spite of MDI's remarkable performance claims, they have never yet
released a prototype for independent testing. MDI's credibility was lost many
years ago. Please take the time to review past posts here over the last ten
years so that we don't have to repeat and re-argue everything just for you.

Vaughn





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