steam turbine

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steam turbine miljacEV 04-23-2008
| `--> Re: steam turbine Duane C. Johnso...05-30-2008
Posted by on April 24, 2008, 9:39 am
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> > definately foolish?

> In my opinion...totally usless.

Because it won't work, or becuase it is too elaborate? I'm thinking of
fun as well as utility. If it would work, I'm interested. If there's no
way a silly little toy steam engine could put out eough power, driven by a
15 psi boiler, then I don't want to waste my time. But if it would work,
then the fun aspect would override the impracticality of a
cobbled-together retro-machine.



> If you want to charge batteries while camping and you don't need much
power,
> think of solar. If you need a bit more than that, get a small generator (make
> it an inverter generator if you can afford it). You could possibly run the
> generator just an hour or two a day to charge a battery, but it depends on
your
> power consumption.

I have some solar panels. I've used them to recharge the cell phone at
home. It takes forever. It does't do shit if it is overcast. And at
night, when I'm actually at the campsite, sittig around looking for
entertainment, they don't work at all.

Yes, a gas generator would work great. But where's the fun in that?

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
        -- Bertrand Russel


Posted by Ken Maltby on April 24, 2008, 11:11 am
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> wrote:
>
>> > definately foolish?
>
>> In my opinion...totally usless.
>
> Because it won't work, or becuase it is too elaborate? I'm thinking of
> fun as well as utility. If it would work, I'm interested. If there's no
> way a silly little toy steam engine could put out eough power, driven by a
> 15 psi boiler, then I don't want to waste my time. But if it would work,
> then the fun aspect would override the impracticality of a
> cobbled-together retro-machine.
>
>
>
>> If you want to charge batteries while camping and you don't need much
>> power,
>> think of solar. If you need a bit more than that, get a small generator
>> (make
>> it an inverter generator if you can afford it). You could possibly run
>> the
>> generator just an hour or two a day to charge a battery, but it depends
>> on your
>> power consumption.
>
> I have some solar panels. I've used them to recharge the cell phone at
> home. It takes forever. It does't do shit if it is overcast. And at
> night, when I'm actually at the campsite, sittig around looking for
> entertainment, they don't work at all.
>
> Yes, a gas generator would work great. But where's the fun in that?
>
> --
> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
> certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
> -- Bertrand Russel
>


You could try it out with compressed air first. Find a cheap air
powered drill or polisher/buffer, connect it to a DC generator/
motor and see what you get with the compressor set to your
steam pressure. (Personally, I think your pressure cooker might
do a lot better than 15psi.)

You could then try it with steam from the pressure cooker on
your stove at home, through the tools.

Luck;
Ken



Posted by on April 24, 2008, 11:56 am
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> You could try it out with compressed air first. Find a cheap air
> powered drill or polisher/buffer, connect it to a DC generator/
> motor and see what you get with the compressor set to your
> steam pressure.

That's a cool idea - ISTM that those tools use a turbine to change
pressure into rotation. Maybe I could find one at a garage sale for
cheap?

Does anyone know what kind of guts they typically have?

(Personally, I think your pressure cooker might
> do a lot better than 15psi.)

Yeah? I saw that somewhere on the 'web.

My problem so far is that I can't find specs for any fo this stuff. The
typical spec for miniature steam engines is "will power a small boat" or
"plenty of power for a model bandsaw" and similar.


> You could then try it with steam from the pressure cooker on
> your stove at home, through the tools.

That alone sounds like fun. Garage sales, here I come...


--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
        -- Bertrand Russel


Posted by Gordon Richmond on April 24, 2008, 2:47 pm
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>
>> You could try it out with compressed air first. Find a cheap air
>> powered drill or polisher/buffer, connect it to a DC generator/
>> motor and see what you get with the compressor set to your
>> steam pressure.
>
>That's a cool idea - ISTM that those tools use a turbine to change
>pressure into rotation. Maybe I could find one at a garage sale for
>cheap?
>
>Does anyone know what kind of guts they typically have?
>
> (Personally, I think your pressure cooker might
>> do a lot better than 15psi.)
>
>Yeah? I saw that somewhere on the 'web.
>
>My problem so far is that I can't find specs for any fo this stuff. The
>typical spec for miniature steam engines is "will power a small boat" or
>"plenty of power for a model bandsaw" and similar.
>
>
>> You could then try it with steam from the pressure cooker on
>> your stove at home, through the tools.
>
>That alone sounds like fun. Garage sales, here I come...

Air tools typically use a vane motor. Comprised of a cylindrical rotor, with
longitudinal
slots, mounted eccentrically within a slightly larger cylinder, In the slots are
vanes
made of light, stiff material, like phenolic resin board, and these vanes are
spring-loaded so as to make contact with the inner surface of the outer
cylinder. As the
inner cylinder rotates, the volume of the spaces bounded by any pair of vanes
varies
smoothly with the rotational position of the inner drum w.r.t. the outer ones.
So an air
inlet is positioned at a point where the volume of such a space is small, and an
outlet
where the volume of such a space is large. Admit compressed air to the inlet,
and it
expands by causing the inner cylinder to rotate.

Such a motor would probably run on steam, for a while. Remember that they
require a shot
of oil in the air inlet on a daily basis, if used daily. Even in compressed-air
service,
they usually don't run continuously. I doubt such a motor would run for an
extended period
on steam, or that it would be very efficient.

Autos back in the '70s and '80s used to use a "smog pump", a vane-type air pump
of similar
construction. They were intended for more or less continuous service, albeit
pumping
filtered air, and were driven off the engine via a V-belt. If you could find one
of those
that isn't seized up, it would be an ideal unit to experiment with.

Gordon Richmond


Posted by Daniel Who Wants to Know on April 24, 2008, 6:21 pm
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>>
>>> You could try it out with compressed air first. Find a cheap air
>>> powered drill or polisher/buffer, connect it to a DC generator/
>>> motor and see what you get with the compressor set to your
>>> steam pressure.
>>
>>That's a cool idea - ISTM that those tools use a turbine to change
>>pressure into rotation. Maybe I could find one at a garage sale for
>>cheap?
>>
>>Does anyone know what kind of guts they typically have?
>>
>> (Personally, I think your pressure cooker might
>>> do a lot better than 15psi.)
>>
>>Yeah? I saw that somewhere on the 'web.
>>
>>My problem so far is that I can't find specs for any fo this stuff. The
>>typical spec for miniature steam engines is "will power a small boat" or
>>"plenty of power for a model bandsaw" and similar.
>>
>>
>>> You could then try it with steam from the pressure cooker on
>>> your stove at home, through the tools.
>>
>>That alone sounds like fun. Garage sales, here I come...
>
> Air tools typically use a vane motor. Comprised of a cylindrical rotor,
> with longitudinal
> slots, mounted eccentrically within a slightly larger cylinder, In the
> slots are vanes
> made of light, stiff material, like phenolic resin board, and these vanes
> are
> spring-loaded so as to make contact with the inner surface of the outer
> cylinder. As the
> inner cylinder rotates, the volume of the spaces bounded by any pair of
> vanes varies
> smoothly with the rotational position of the inner drum w.r.t. the outer
> ones. So an air
> inlet is positioned at a point where the volume of such a space is small,
> and an outlet
> where the volume of such a space is large. Admit compressed air to the
> inlet, and it
> expands by causing the inner cylinder to rotate.
>
> Such a motor would probably run on steam, for a while. Remember that they
> require a shot
> of oil in the air inlet on a daily basis, if used daily. Even in
> compressed-air service,
> they usually don't run continuously. I doubt such a motor would run for an
> extended period
> on steam, or that it would be very efficient.
>
> Autos back in the '70s and '80s used to use a "smog pump", a vane-type air
> pump of similar
> construction. They were intended for more or less continuous service,
> albeit pumping
> filtered air, and were driven off the engine via a V-belt. If you could
> find one of those
> that isn't seized up, it would be an ideal unit to experiment with.
>
> Gordon Richmond
>

I was going to suggest an air tool motor also. As you said it will probably
require an automated drip oilier to keep working for very long without
locking up.



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