Posted by Neon John on January 21, 2008, 7:54 pm
A few days ago someone asked about the performance of that little $100 Chicom
generator that I mention quite often. I often operate my little electric saw on
the
generator and the OP was also curious about that.
Today I braved the cold mountain weather :-) to run some tests and collect data.
Here
are the results:
http://www.johndearmond.com/2008/01/21/two-stroke-1kw-generator-test/
Executive summary: it performs wonderfully and meets its specifications.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
So you're a feminist... Isn't that cute!
Posted by somebody on January 22, 2008, 11:45 am
>A few days ago someone asked about the performance of that little $100 Chicom
>generator that I mention quite often. I often operate my little electric saw
on the
>generator and the OP was also curious about that.
>Today I braved the cold mountain weather :-) to run some tests and collect
data. Here
>are the results:
>http://www.johndearmond.com/2008/01/21/two-stroke-1kw-generator-test/
>Executive summary: it performs wonderfully and meets its specifications.
>John
Your test is about a year late, :-) and leads me to think that even
within the line of Chicom generators there were variations, much like
the variations in lead paint on kiddie toys from that great industrial
center.
Using a chain saw to measure total power output?
Seems a little odd rather than a pure resistance test, and could skew
figures a bit, but OK.
>The generator meets its nominal rating of 1kW.
Curious that yours was rated at 1kw, when we both bought from
Northern, and mine was rated as below:
>The claims seen in some e-stores that this is a 1200 watt generator are false.
Not only in some e-stores, but the blue colored model at Northern in
Miami had 1200 watts clearly marked on it.
>The generator was obviously at the higher load that it could support and
maintain some semblance of 60 hz output.
>It lays to rest some claims that have been made that this generator cannot
output a kW.
While I readily admit to the honesty of your test, and your experience
with your unit, and do not dispute it in the slightest, I'll again
provide the figures from my test last year, which was at 11 feet above
sea level in Florida on an 80 degree day.
:Beat you to that experiment. I have a nominal 1500 watt resistance wire heater
that is tapped at 500, 1000, and 1500, with a 12 watt fan.
:
:For those who haven't been following, the generator being discussed is the
little 1200 watt chinese unit from Northern Supply,
:
:Plugged in the Isobar to the generator and then plugged my KAW into that, and
the heater into the KAW.
:
:Results as provided by the KAW
:open circuit
:0 watts .01 amp 53 to 60 Hz with motor ranging all over
:
:fan only
:11 watts 58 Hz .13 amp 123 vt
:
:First element 500 nominal watts
:
:454 watts 59 Hz 109 to 111 vt 4.0 amp
:
:Second stage 1000 nominal watts
:790 watts (ranging from 756 to 799) 7.28 amp 106 vt 59.9 to 60.9 Hz
:
:Third stage 1500 nominal watts
:811 to 841 watts 9.34 amps 88 volts 52 Hz.
:
:Short conclusions: 1200 watts? In your dreams. This unit appears to top out
at less than 900 watts with very poor regulation in that range. Maybe using
Nitro would up the wattage, but with the small engine, 200 to 700 watts seems
like where it wants to live.
:
:The Isobar didn't bat an eyelash, much less overheat, which was kind of a
surprise. I wonder how much the filtering dropped the wattage when the unit
dropped down to 52 Hz. That could be part of the poor performance, but I wasn't
going to risk my KAW testing output without some filtering.
Update on the unit that I bought.
I used it fairly extensively for a while during the spring and early
summer. I discovered that it would power a drill fine, but cutting
anything thicker than a pressure treated 2 x 4 with a skilsaw would
bog the saw down so much that the saw would stall.
As I continued using the generator, I saw performance continue to drop
and things get more funky. Eventually, the generator fried the MOVs
on my Tripplite, which made me limit its use even further, for fear of
damaging anything other than tool motors and resistance heat. One
morning, after about 200 hours or more of use, it just wouldn't start
for me. I didn't have time to mess around with it, cranked up my
larger generator and let it sit. A few months later, a workman who
was doing some repair work for me expressed an interest in the unit,
wanting to tear it apart to see how it worked, and I gave it to him in
lieu of a tip. He was happy, I was happy, and all ended well.
My conclusions?
Given the two different ratings of 1 Kw and 1200 watts, the
differences between John's test results and mine, and our different
experiences, I'm inclined to think that one Chinese factory made a
clone of the generator from a different factory, increased the claimed
output, and put in fewer windings and did whatever else possible to
save money. John got a unit from the first batch, and I got one from
the second.
Knowing what I know now, would I buy another? Probably not, although
it is a neat package, and if I did consider it, I'd be looking for one
that had the honest rating on it, like John's. For me, my next
project along these lines will be more like the one shown here:
http://www.theepicenter.com/tow02077.html
This is far more cool, because it has the potential of solving many of
the problems of low power generators. The components are easily
replaceable, the design in elegant in that the battery in the circuit
allows higher starting current for motors, and when there are tiny
ovenight loads like a fan, there is no need to switch plugs. The
disadvantage is the added weight, noise, and bulk, but I think the
advantages outweigh the disadvantages for me.
I am greatful for John finally testing his Chicom unit, because it
does provide another solid data point, and helps explain why he had
good things to say, while my experience was not nearly as good.
Posted by Neon John on January 22, 2008, 5:10 pm
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:45:08 -0500, somebody@somewhere.com wrote:
>Your test is about a year late, :-) and leads me to think that even
>within the line of Chicom generators there were variations, much like
>the variations in lead paint on kiddie toys from that great industrial
>center.
I doubt it. The red generator was purchased in 2001, the blue in 2006. I've had
both apart right down to splitting the crankcase. They're identical in every way
except the color and minor details of the cosmetics. Undoubtedly NT bought
enough of
'em to afford to have a custom plastic mold made. They test electrically
identical
too, to within a reasonable tolerance.
>Using a chain saw to measure total power output?
Because someone asked me to. And because I needed to cut some limbs that the
wind
blew down. Two birds with one stone.
>Seems a little odd rather than a pure resistance test, and could skew
>figures a bit, but OK.
Really? Pray tell how?
>While I readily admit to the honesty of your test, and your experience
>with your unit, and do not dispute it in the slightest, I'll again
>provide the figures from my test last year, which was at 11 feet above
>sea level in Florida on an 80 degree day.
Has it occured to you that you might have had a bad generator? The blowing of
MOVs
and the losing power in the Isobar indicate to me that one of the rectifiers in
the
harmonically excited field may have been blown.
The output of this generator is far from pure but geez, it's a kilowatt for a
franklin! How much do you want for a franklin?
So far I've run the following things on the generator with absolutely no problem.
Chain saw
electric lawn mower
DeWalt cordless tool battery charger (very picky, won't run on inverter)
Dell laptop
Vector/B&D smart battery charger
PD Intellipower 60 amp converter
My RV
Portable TV
Boom box
600 watt microwave*
400 watt mercury vapor light
1000 metal halide light
Fry Daddy deep fryer
Cellphone charger
Nikon, Canon and Hitachi camera chargers
Hitachi and Nikon battery replacement units for said cameras
4 head studio strobes
A wide variety of CF lighting including an 80 actual watt monster I ordered from
China.
* I think this probably overloaded the generator because the microwave cooked
slower
than normal and the generator was obviously straining. But it "got 'er done".
The one thing that I tried that didn't work, indeed it let out blue smoke, was my
Schumacher smart charger. I've opened 'er up and analyzed the circuit and
understand
why. The input power factor correcting circuit is poorly designed and relies
heavily
on a pure sine wave. It probably would have smoked on my QuietPack.
>Knowing what I know now, would I buy another? Probably not, although
>it is a neat package, and if I did consider it, I'd be looking for one
>that had the honest rating on it, like John's. For me, my next
>project along these lines will be more like the one shown here:
>http://www.theepicenter.com/tow02077.html
>This is far more cool, because it has the potential of solving many of
>the problems of low power generators. The components are easily
>replaceable, the design in elegant in that the battery in the circuit
>allows higher starting current for motors, and when there are tiny
>ovenight loads like a fan, there is no need to switch plugs. The
>disadvantage is the added weight, noise, and bulk, but I think the
>advantages outweigh the disadvantages for me.
Which one? There's so much crap on that page. The engine->12volt
generator->battery->inverter package?
BTDT. Forget it. It won't come close to what the 1kW generator will do for far
more
money. My 1kW inverters (vector, power-on-board, generic chicom - I have
several)
won't even budge my chain saw. My 1500 watt inverters will, but only if the
blade
tension isn't too tight. Once started, it runs fine and cuts well. It's the
huge
inrush of that universal motor that trips the inverter. Even my P-O-B version
with
the soft start (voltage comes up gradually) has trouble. I should point out
that my
P-O-B inverter and the generator were about the same price.
>I am greatful for John finally testing his Chicom unit, because it
>does provide another solid data point, and helps explain why he had
>good things to say, while my experience was not nearly as good.
Nobody should learn that it's impolite to speak in the third person about
someone in
his presence.
Too bad you didn't take your generator back to get a new one when you first
discovered that it wouldn't meet specs. The next one would probably have been
OK.
In and amongst all this arm waving, I should point out again that this is a fine
little $100 disposable generator. It would be a LOUSY $700 generator. OTOH, it
can
do what those $700 EU1000s and other inverter generators can't. Start high
inrush
loads and handle overloads with ease. And if what one throws at it is too much,
the
generator simply hunkers down at a slow speed and waits for the overload to be
removed. Or eventually, for the breaker to trip. It doesn't throw up its li'l
electronic arms and say "screw it, that's 1 watt too much", turn on the red
light and
quit like ALL inverter generators do.
Inverter generators obviously have their places but so does this one. It does a
fine
job of driving a 60 amp Intellipower to rapidly charge the RV batteries, which is
where this discussion started. I can set it down beside my RV and not feel
compelled
to chain the thing down with a log chain, lest someone walk off with it. If
someone
DOES walk off with it, well, another Franklin gets me another one.
It's quiet enough that I can't hear it inside my rig. It's probably too loud for
anyone to pull chairs up around like some members of the Church of EU seem to
think
is so important. But it's quiet enough for most folks in most situations.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Democracy is three wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.
Posted by nicksanspam on January 22, 2008, 5:42 pm
Pep Boys is closing out their EU2000 clone for $250, but
I don't think it can be paralleled for cogen capability.
Nick
Posted by Cliff on January 22, 2008, 6:07 pm
Neon John wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:45:08 -0500, somebody@somewhere.com wrote:
> Snipped all that Fal-de-Rol about this 'n' that
> It's probably
> too loud for anyone to pull chairs up around >
> John
If I can't prop my feet up on it while watching TV, then I'm using the
Electric Powered Generator I read about on here, some time back, that makes
enough watts to keep itsownself going!
Cliff in FL - where FROGS are drowning as I write this ... you'd think
Canadians had enough sense to get in OUT of the rain ...
:-) DAMN! Sometimes I just CRACK ME UP! LOL
--
If it can't be easier, Lord, make me Stronger ...
Our Web Side www.cj-and-m.com
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>generator that I mention quite often. I often operate my little electric saw