Posted by wmbjkREMOVE on January 4, 2010, 3:25 pm
On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 08:49:09 -0500, "vaughn"
>>
>> Having ridden motorcycles and scooters from 80cc on up for 40 years I can say
>> that's bullshit. Even large dinosaur primitive motorcycles such as 1200cc
>> Harley's get close to 55mpg on the highway.
>>
>Perhaps, but my beloved 1965 600cc Beemer only managed in the 30's. Primitive
>carburetors.
>Vaughn
I had an R100RS that got about 50 on the highway, and an 1100cc Suzuki
a few years later that did substantially better even though rear tire
life was poor. I expect that newer stuff is at least a bit improved,
but whenever I hear the hogly stories I always figure it's an urban
legend designed to make wives more amenable to an insane purchase. :-)
Wayne
Posted by nospam on January 4, 2010, 3:28 pm
vaughn wrote:
>> Having ridden motorcycles and scooters from 80cc on up for 40 years I can say
>> that's bullshit. Even large dinosaur primitive motorcycles such as 1200cc
>> Harley's get close to 55mpg on the highway.
>>
> Perhaps, but my beloved 1965 600cc Beemer only managed in the 30's. Primitive
> carburetors.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
My first bike, a 65 Suzuki 80 had a 1.5 gallon gas tank, top speed 55
mph, 62 downhill with a tail wind ;~).I filled it up once a week and
drove to school all week ( 28 mile round trip per day) by Friday night
I'd have to flip on the reserve. I'd have to drive it wide open to keep
up with traffic. My 1966 250 Ducati single, primitive carb and all
manages 68 mpg on the highway. Here's a link to high gas mileage bikes.
http://hubpages.com/hub/MPG-Guide-The-700-Top-Selling-Motorcycles
Posted by Neo on January 4, 2010, 3:03 pm
On Jan 3, 10:54 pm, nos...@nevis.com wrote:
> Neo wrote:
> > Going over 25 mph on a scooter would be very dangerous - if the
> > scooter hits anything or if anything hits that scooter then the
> > scooter is going to spin out-of-control and the driver would be
> > thrown off the scooter and most likely killed instantaneously
> > when the driven hit the earth again.
> > Since the scooter's fuel efficiency would suffer greatly from
> > air resistance at speed over 35 mph - the scooters could
> > probably only acheive 70 mpg if it was driven between under 33 mph.
> > If a scooter was driven constantly at 60mph its fuel efficiency
> > would probably drop to about 30mpg to 35mpg due to
> > the wind resistance the scooter's engine would have to
> > overcome.
> Having ridden motorcycles and scooters from 80cc on up for 40 years I
> can say that's bullshit. Even large dinosaur primitive motorcycles such
> as 1200cc Harley's get close to 55mpg on the highway.
ICE Fuel efficiency can be maximized on highway. Recently,
I got 55 mpg on the highway using a 2006 Toyota Prius
(1200miles Ohio/Pennsylvania Turnpike, avg speed 55 mph) and
I got 32 mpg on the highway using a 1990 Honda Accord LX
(1200miles Ohio/Pennsylvania Turnpike, avg speed 50mph)
however in both cases I was driving in temperatures above
60 F. When the temperature drops below 40F and I'm driving
in city stop and go traffic - my fuel efficiency drops signficantly
( the 1990 Honda Accord drops from 32mpg to 20mpg).
The fuel efficiency of motorcycles and scooter is going to
also depending on the driving conditions. Your reported
top FE experience for motorcycles is much better than
what I've heard in the washington DC metro area which
is 40-50 mpg range. Maybe its the colder weather.
Alternative sources also suggests that 45 mpg is a more
realistic number for 1200cc Harleys.
1966-1997 Harley with 1200cc gets about 36 to 49 mpg
1998-2009 Harley with 1200cc gets about 38 to 50 mpg
http://hubpages.com/hub/Motorcycle-MPG-Guide-Harley-Davidson-Big-Twins
While a scooter might get 55 mpg and it might be
able to achive speeds of upto 55 mph - it may not
accelerate, brake, or handle well enough
on the highway to safely do so. As stated earlier,
safety is not entirely in the control of the bike's
operator so even with a more capable operator
- the risk are still higher for the bike's operator than
on a enclosed motor vehicle like a car or truck.
With the exceptions being three wheeled
vehicles which totally enclose and protect
the operator like the Aptera models (which
are only sold in California) .
> > In Europe, a driver can get easily get 60 mpg (at about 45mph)
> > and carry 4 passengers plus six bags of groceries using a
> > VW Polo Bluemotion
> > Toyota Agoya
> > And they would also be highway legal (capable of 75 mph),
> > have a longer range, (400 miles) and be much safer than
> > a scooter in a collision.
> None of these are available in North America, so the point is moot.
True. However,
VW will be selling the Polo in the USA in 2011 and
Toyota is planning to sell a hybrid version of the Yaris in 2011
both should get up to 60 mpg if my preliminary
information is correct. However, in order to get 60mpg
both vehicles would have to operate under a kind
of computer controlled throttle economy/urban mode.
Both should also sell for less than 20,000 USD too.
Currently - the only way to 60mpg from any
ICE vehicle in the USA is via hypermiling techniques
- cars in the USA are just way too heavy
One of the reasons some Japanese and European
cars can achieve 50 to 60 mpg is because
they are much lighter in weight and can be
mated with a smaller more fuel efficient ICE.
In the UK, Axon Automotive has taken
this to the extreme and has built an extremely
light chassie for a 2 seater coupe that gets
100 mpg. See
http://www.axonautomotive.com/index.html
Posted by nospam on January 4, 2010, 4:03 pm
Neo wrote:
> On Jan 3, 10:54 pm, nos...@nevis.com wrote:
>> Neo wrote:
>>> Going over 25 mph on a scooter would be very dangerous - if the
>>> scooter hits anything or if anything hits that scooter then the
>>> scooter is going to spin out-of-control and the driver would be
>>> thrown off the scooter and most likely killed instantaneously
>>> when the driven hit the earth again.
>>> Since the scooter's fuel efficiency would suffer greatly from
>>> air resistance at speed over 35 mph - the scooters could
>>> probably only acheive 70 mpg if it was driven between under 33 mph.
>>> If a scooter was driven constantly at 60mph its fuel efficiency
>>> would probably drop to about 30mpg to 35mpg due to
>>> the wind resistance the scooter's engine would have to
>>> overcome.
>> Having ridden motorcycles and scooters from 80cc on up for 40 years I
>> can say that's bullshit. Even large dinosaur primitive motorcycles such
>> as 1200cc Harley's get close to 55mpg on the highway.
>
> ICE Fuel efficiency can be maximized on highway. Recently,
> I got 55 mpg on the highway using a 2006 Toyota Prius
> (1200miles Ohio/Pennsylvania Turnpike, avg speed 55 mph) and
> I got 32 mpg on the highway using a 1990 Honda Accord LX
> (1200miles Ohio/Pennsylvania Turnpike, avg speed 50mph)
> however in both cases I was driving in temperatures above
> 60 F. When the temperature drops below 40F and I'm driving
> in city stop and go traffic - my fuel efficiency drops signficantly
> ( the 1990 Honda Accord drops from 32mpg to 20mpg).
With cars gas mileage is a matter of gearing, streamlining and how heavy
your foot is. During the summer I can coax 53 mpg out of my 99 saturn at
55mph drafting tractor trailers, which is the perfect speed for it's
gearing (1800 rpm @55mph). City driving is another matter no matter what
you drive, scooter or car, but a scooter is going to get much better
mileage than you claim on the highway (30-35mpg).
> The fuel efficiency of motorcycles and scooter is going to
> also depending on the driving conditions. Your reported
> top FE experience for motorcycles is much better than
> what I've heard in the washington DC metro area which
> is 40-50 mpg range. Maybe its the colder weather.
> Alternative sources also suggests that 45 mpg is a more
> realistic number for 1200cc Harleys.
>
> 1966-1997 Harley with 1200cc gets about 36 to 49 mpg
> 1998-2009 Harley with 1200cc gets about 38 to 50 mpg
> http://hubpages.com/hub/Motorcycle-MPG-Guide-Harley-Davidson-Big-Twins
Here's were I got my figures:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/Harley-Davidson.htm
>
> While a scooter might get 55 mpg and it might be
> able to achive speeds of upto 55 mph - it may not
> accelerate, brake, or handle well enough
> on the highway to safely do so.
It's a matter of power to weight ratio, a 240lb scooter with
10 HP is 24 lb per horsepower, my Saturn weights 2400lbs and
has 100 HP, the same power to weight ratio. In town a scooter would have
no problem keeping up with traffic, few people are going to use one for
anything other than short trips anyway and off major highways.
As stated earlier,
> safety is not entirely in the control of the bike's
> operator so even with a more capable operator
> - the risk are still higher for the bike's operator than
> on a enclosed motor vehicle like a car or truck.
> With the exceptions being three wheeled
> vehicles which totally enclose and protect
> the operator like the Aptera models (which
> are only sold in California) .
>
>>
>>> In Europe, a driver can get easily get 60 mpg (at about 45mph)
>>> and carry 4 passengers plus six bags of groceries using a
>>> VW Polo Bluemotion
>>> Toyota Agoya
>>> And they would also be highway legal (capable of 75 mph),
>>> have a longer range, (400 miles) and be much safer than
>>> a scooter in a collision.
>> None of these are available in North America, so the point is moot.
>
> True. However,
> VW will be selling the Polo in the USA in 2011 and
> Toyota is planning to sell a hybrid version of the Yaris in 2011
> both should get up to 60 mpg if my preliminary
> information is correct. However, in order to get 60mpg
> both vehicles would have to operate under a kind
> of computer controlled throttle economy/urban mode.
> Both should also sell for less than 20,000 USD too.
>
> Currently - the only way to 60mpg from any
> ICE vehicle in the USA is via hypermiling techniques
> - cars in the USA are just way too heavy
>
> One of the reasons some Japanese and European
> cars can achieve 50 to 60 mpg is because
> they are much lighter in weight and can be
> mated with a smaller more fuel efficient ICE.
>
> In the UK, Axon Automotive has taken
> this to the extreme and has built an extremely
> light chassie for a 2 seater coupe that gets
> 100 mpg. See
>
> http://www.axonautomotive.com/index.html
>
Which at that weight is likely no safer than a scooter or motorcycle ;~)
Posted by Josepi on January 5, 2010, 12:31 am
So a fat guy has no gas economy on a scooter.
LOL
Neo wrote:
It's a matter of power to weight ratio, a 240lb scooter with
10 HP is 24 lb per horsepower, my Saturn weights 2400lbs and
has 100 HP, the same power to weight ratio. In town a scooter would have
no problem keeping up with traffic, few people are going to use one for
anything other than short trips anyway and off major highways.
Which at that weight is likely no safer than a scooter or motorcycle ;~)
>> Having ridden motorcycles and scooters from 80cc on up for 40 years I can say
>> that's bullshit. Even large dinosaur primitive motorcycles such as 1200cc
>> Harley's get close to 55mpg on the highway.
>>
>Perhaps, but my beloved 1965 600cc Beemer only managed in the 30's. Primitive
>carburetors.
>Vaughn