Posted by daestrom on April 11, 2010, 1:52 am
Energy Guy wrote:
> Josepi wrote:
>
>> At 80 cents / kWh even a set of batteries and some clever MPPT
>> manipulation could make some devious free credits. I won't
>> disclose how to do this here. I am sure you can imagine how
>> to do it. Too many smarts listening.
>
> What's to stop me from running a line from my house to my neighbor's, so
> that he can feed it back into the grid?
>
> I get billed at, what, 10 cents/kwh here in Ontario? And he gets a
> credit of 80 cents for making his meter run backwards?
>
> So when he gets his payment, we split it (I get 50 cents/kwh, and he
> gets 30 cents).
>
> Tell me why that wouldn't work.
The two house feeds are locked-stepped in phase. To get power to flow
from A to B takes a bit more than just an extension cord.
daestrom
Posted by Josepi on April 11, 2010, 2:37 am
Why take it to aneighbour's when you have your two meters side by side?
daestrom has the right answer. It takes more like connecting a battery to
itself and trying to charge it.
(there is that darn battery analogy again...LOL)
Energy Guy wrote:
> Josepi wrote:
>> At 80 cents / kWh even a set of batteries and some clever MPPT
>> manipulation could make some devious free credits. I won't
>> disclose how to do this here. I am sure you can imagine how
>> to do it. Too many smarts listening.
> What's to stop me from running a line from my house to my neighbor's, so
> that he can feed it back into the grid?
> I get billed at, what, 10 cents/kwh here in Ontario? And he gets a
> credit of 80 cents for making his meter run backwards?
> So when he gets his payment, we split it (I get 50 cents/kwh, and he
> gets 30 cents).
> Tell me why that wouldn't work.
The two house feeds are locked-stepped in phase. To get power to flow
from A to B takes a bit more than just an extension cord.
daestrom
Posted by Energy Guy on April 11, 2010, 4:00 am
Josepi wrote:
> Why take it to a neighbour's when you have your two meters side
> by side?
I just figured it would look less fishy if two addresses were involved.
> daestrom has the right answer. It takes more like connecting a
> battery to itself and trying to charge it.
> The two house feeds are locked-stepped in phase. To get power
> to flow from A to B takes a bit more than just an extension
> cord.
So I run my line through a step-up transformer to raise the voltage a
little (maybe 5%) then feed that to my neighbor.
Because it's in exact phase with the grid, I don't need expensive
equipment to *make it in phase* which is what you must do with any
alternative power source.
Posted by Josepi on April 11, 2010, 4:54 am
5% would be way too large. Draw the circuit out and you will find the 5%
output into a dead short (meter element only = bus bar with a small CT on
it)
Josepi wrote:
> Why take it to a neighbour's when you have your two meters side
> by side?
I just figured it would look less fishy if two addresses were involved.
> daestrom has the right answer. It takes more like connecting a
> battery to itself and trying to charge it.
> The two house feeds are locked-stepped in phase. To get power
> to flow from A to B takes a bit more than just an extension
> cord.
So I run my line through a step-up transformer to raise the voltage a
little (maybe 5%) then feed that to my neighbor.
Because it's in exact phase with the grid, I don't need expensive
equipment to *make it in phase* which is what you must do with any
alternative power source.
Posted by vaughn on April 11, 2010, 12:11 pm
> 5% would be way too large. Draw the circuit out and you will find the 5%
> output into a dead short (meter element only = bus bar with a small CT on
> it)
Boost-Buck transformers are available with lots of taps that give you rather
fine control of the output voltage. Further, they are cheap and efficient
because only a fraction of the system's energy actually flows through them.
They are always my choice for small voltage adjustments (such as converting 208
to 240 or 240>208).
That said, I am sure that there would be some bureaucratic barriers to doing
what you suggest: Your neighbor would probably at least need to have a
plausible PV system with all of the usual inspections etc. etc. to be paid for
power at that (crazy) PV rate.
Vaughn
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>
>> At 80 cents / kWh even a set of batteries and some clever MPPT
>> manipulation could make some devious free credits. I won't
>> disclose how to do this here. I am sure you can imagine how
>> to do it. Too many smarts listening.
>
> What's to stop me from running a line from my house to my neighbor's, so
> that he can feed it back into the grid?
>
> I get billed at, what, 10 cents/kwh here in Ontario? And he gets a
> credit of 80 cents for making his meter run backwards?
>
> So when he gets his payment, we split it (I get 50 cents/kwh, and he
> gets 30 cents).
>
> Tell me why that wouldn't work.