Posted by harry on July 8, 2009, 3:48 pm
> harry wrote:
> >> Here is why it's bad to use a PMA (permanent magnet) motor for your Wind
> >> Power:
> >> 1) It would require so much strong wind to turn the motor, most of them
> >> output 300watt - 1000watt at voltage not useful to charge your standard
> >> battery. PMA motors are weak, so many times weaker than NON-PMA motors.
> >> I already tested theirs. So be sure you test their motor with load if
> >> you got one, because they use capacitor to mislead the true output. theirs
> >> is a hyper output!.
> >> 2) PMA motor doesn't have any flexibility to adapt to wind power, it's
> >> fixed. Therefore you are a loser if you bought one, its torque cannot be
> >> adjusted to adapt to wind's power.
> >> 3) The PMA makers are usually jalous poeple, they're afraid you will invade
> >> their market, they would try to eliminate your idea if you have something
> >> better.
> >> 4) THE PMA-MOTOR USERS/MAKERS called Adjustable Torque motors as junk,
> >> BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T TRIED IT, and they don't know anything about it.
> >>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Why it makes sense to use an Alternator with Automagnet/Autofield
> >> controller?
> >> 1) It can adjust itself to any wind speed, any wind power.
> >> 2) Generator outputs 4-10 times more power, real power, not hyper power
> >> like PMA motors.
> > There is no difference between a "motor" and a "generator" they are
> > exactly the same thing, just as there is no such thing as a DCmotor/
> > generator, they are all AC. There is no radical difference between an
> > "alternator" and a permanent "motor/generator".
> Boy, where did you get that nonsense. DC motor is the name given to a
> particular type of machine that uses DC power to work. It doesn't work
> worth a hoot on AC. Similarly take an AC induction motor and hook it up
> to a DC supply and tell me how many times in spins.
> Likewise its awfully difficult to get AC out of a DC generator. Whereas
> most modern car alternators are just AC generators with a rectifier
> built in to convert it to DC.
> > Just one has a
> > permanent magnet and the other has an "electro-magnet" Some clever
> > man has devised truely permanent permanent magnets that's all. A
> > permanent magnet device is less flexible than a electro-magnet device
> > because the strength of the magnetic field cannot be varied. A
> > disadvantage.
> > All "motors" can be made to generate. All "generators" can be run as
> > motors.
> *SOME* motors are much easier to use as generator than others. Running
> / regulating an induction generator without an AC supply is quite
> difficult. But using a synchronous motor as an AC generator is a snap.
> Likewise it's just about impossible to get AC from a DC generator.
> Despite your silly statement that 'they are all AC'.
> > Technology has changed over the years, mainly because of cunning
> > electronic devices. The principles have not.
> DC generators can still put out smoother power than rectified AC unless
> you want to go to 9-phase AC generator or higher. The 'principles' are
> more than just claiming 'they are all AC'.
> daestrom
Oh, & BTW The only places you will get DC from is batteries, PV
cells, thermocouples ETC. There is always ripple on rectified DC from
a rotating electrical machine. It can be reduced by
"smoothing" (capacitors in parallel, inductors in series). But in the
end it will still be there.
Posted by daestrom on July 11, 2009, 10:49 am
harry wrote:
>> harry wrote:
>>>> Here is why it's bad to use a PMA (permanent magnet) motor for your Wind
>>>> Power:
>>>> 1) It would require so much strong wind to turn the motor, most of them
>>>> output 300watt - 1000watt at voltage not useful to charge your standard
>>>> battery. PMA motors are weak, so many times weaker than NON-PMA motors.
>>>> I already tested theirs. So be sure you test their motor with load if
>>>> you got one, because they use capacitor to mislead the true output. theirs
>>>> is a hyper output!.
>>>> 2) PMA motor doesn't have any flexibility to adapt to wind power, it's
>>>> fixed. Therefore you are a loser if you bought one, its torque cannot be
>>>> adjusted to adapt to wind's power.
>>>> 3) The PMA makers are usually jalous poeple, they're afraid you will invade
>>>> their market, they would try to eliminate your idea if you have something
>>>> better.
>>>> 4) THE PMA-MOTOR USERS/MAKERS called Adjustable Torque motors as junk,
>>>> BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T TRIED IT, and they don't know anything about it.
>>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Why it makes sense to use an Alternator with Automagnet/Autofield
>>>> controller?
>>>> 1) It can adjust itself to any wind speed, any wind power.
>>>> 2) Generator outputs 4-10 times more power, real power, not hyper power
>>>> like PMA motors.
>>> There is no difference between a "motor" and a "generator" they are
>>> exactly the same thing, just as there is no such thing as a DCmotor/
>>> generator, they are all AC. There is no radical difference between an
>>> "alternator" and a permanent "motor/generator".
>> Boy, where did you get that nonsense. DC motor is the name given to a
>> particular type of machine that uses DC power to work. It doesn't work
>> worth a hoot on AC. Similarly take an AC induction motor and hook it up
>> to a DC supply and tell me how many times in spins.
>>
>> Likewise its awfully difficult to get AC out of a DC generator. Whereas
>> most modern car alternators are just AC generators with a rectifier
>> built in to convert it to DC.
>>
>>> Just one has a
>>> permanent magnet and the other has an "electro-magnet" Some clever
>>> man has devised truely permanent permanent magnets that's all. A
>>> permanent magnet device is less flexible than a electro-magnet device
>>> because the strength of the magnetic field cannot be varied. A
>>> disadvantage.
>>> All "motors" can be made to generate. All "generators" can be run as
>>> motors.
>> *SOME* motors are much easier to use as generator than others. Running
>> / regulating an induction generator without an AC supply is quite
>> difficult. But using a synchronous motor as an AC generator is a snap.
>> Likewise it's just about impossible to get AC from a DC generator.
>> Despite your silly statement that 'they are all AC'.
>>
>>> Technology has changed over the years, mainly because of cunning
>>> electronic devices. The principles have not.
>> DC generators can still put out smoother power than rectified AC unless
>> you want to go to 9-phase AC generator or higher. The 'principles' are
>> more than just claiming 'they are all AC'.
>>
>> daestrom
>
> Oh, & BTW The only places you will get DC from is batteries, PV
> cells, thermocouples ETC. There is always ripple on rectified DC from
> a rotating electrical machine. It can be reduced by
> "smoothing" (capacitors in parallel, inductors in series). But in the
> end it will still be there.
You obviously have no idea what the output of a good multi-kW or DC
generator looks like on an o-scope. When you have over a hundred bars
on the commutator (and hence over a hundred windings) wired in a nice
lap winding, with brushes that span four or six bars, you'd be
hard-pressed to find ripple.
And smoothing multi-kw DC with capacitors??? Yeah, right....
daestrom
Posted by harry on July 13, 2009, 3:32 pm
> harry wrote:
> >> harry wrote:
> >>>> Here is why it's bad to use a PMA (permanent magnet) motor for your Wind
> >>>> Power:
> >>>> 1) It would require so much strong wind to turn the motor, most of them
> >>>> output 300watt - 1000watt at voltage not useful to charge your standard
> >>>> battery. PMA motors are weak, so many times weaker than NON-PMA motors.
> >>>> I already tested theirs. So be sure you test their motor with load if
> >>>> you got one, because they use capacitor to mislead the true output. theirs
> >>>> is a hyper output!.
> >>>> 2) PMA motor doesn't have any flexibility to adapt to wind power, it's
> >>>> fixed. Therefore you are a loser if you bought one, its torque cannot be
> >>>> adjusted to adapt to wind's power.
> >>>> 3) The PMA makers are usually jalous poeple, they're afraid you will
invade
> >>>> their market, they would try to eliminate your idea if you have something
> >>>> better.
> >>>> 4) THE PMA-MOTOR USERS/MAKERS called Adjustable Torque motors as junk,
> >>>> BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T TRIED IT, and they don't know anything about it.
> >>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Why it makes sense to use an Alternator with Automagnet/Autofield
> >>>> controller?
> >>>> 1) It can adjust itself to any wind speed, any wind power.
> >>>> 2) Generator outputs 4-10 times more power, real power, not hyper power
> >>>> like PMA motors.
> >>> There is no difference between a "motor" and a "generator" they are
> >>> exactly the same thing, just as there is no such thing as a DCmotor/
> >>> generator, they are all AC. There is no radical difference between an
> >>> "alternator" and a permanent "motor/generator".
> >> Boy, where did you get that nonsense. DC motor is the name given to a
> >> particular type of machine that uses DC power to work. It doesn't work
> >> worth a hoot on AC. Similarly take an AC induction motor and hook it up
> >> to a DC supply and tell me how many times in spins.
> >> Likewise its awfully difficult to get AC out of a DC generator. Whereas
> >> most modern car alternators are just AC generators with a rectifier
> >> built in to convert it to DC.
> >>> Just one has a
> >>> permanent magnet and the other has an "electro-magnet" Some clever
> >>> man has devised truely permanent permanent magnets that's all. A
> >>> permanent magnet device is less flexible than a electro-magnet device
> >>> because the strength of the magnetic field cannot be varied. A
> >>> disadvantage.
> >>> All "motors" can be made to generate. All "generators" can be run as
> >>> motors.
> >> *SOME* motors are much easier to use as generator than others. Running
> >> / regulating an induction generator without an AC supply is quite
> >> difficult. But using a synchronous motor as an AC generator is a snap.
> >> Likewise it's just about impossible to get AC from a DC generator.
> >> Despite your silly statement that 'they are all AC'.
> >>> Technology has changed over the years, mainly because of cunning
> >>> electronic devices. The principles have not.
> >> DC generators can still put out smoother power than rectified AC unless
> >> you want to go to 9-phase AC generator or higher. The 'principles' are
> >> more than just claiming 'they are all AC'.
> >> daestrom
> > Oh, & BTW The only places you will get DC from is batteries, PV
> > cells, thermocouples ETC. There is always ripple on rectified DC from
> > a rotating electrical machine. It can be reduced by
> > "smoothing" (capacitors in parallel, inductors in series). But in the
> > end it will still be there.
> You obviously have no idea what the output of a good multi-kW or DC
> generator looks like on an o-scope. When you have over a hundred bars
> on the commutator (and hence over a hundred windings) wired in a nice
> lap winding, with brushes that span four or six bars, you'd be
> hard-pressed to find ripple.
> And smoothing multi-kw DC with capacitors??? Yeah, right....
> daestrom
That would be an expensive machine. Not been made for sixty years I
bet. The last ones would have beem pilot excitors for power statio
use.
& BTW capacitors come in very large sizes these days. (Google
ultracapacitors)
& wave windings give a smoother output BTW.
Posted by Day Brown on July 9, 2009, 11:24 am
My experience with a waterwheel was that it would produce power less
efficiently, but did so over a much wider range of flow.
And when hooked to an auto alternator, didnt produce nearly as much
power as it did with a generator running at the same speed. Maybe the
efficiency of the alternator would be better if the RPM was higher, but
the higher rev ratios cost power also.
Also, while the Alternator would put out higher peak power, it'd over
heat, whereas the generator would run at peak output 24/7. And, if the
belt got loose, the ball bearings in the alternator tore up right quick,
but the sintered brass bushings in the generator took that forever, or
til the belt snapped.
Course, the old generator was not PM; but there's no reason a PM
generator cant be designed with auxillary field windings to kick in if
the RPM is high enuf.
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> >> Here is why it's bad to use a PMA (permanent magnet) motor for your Wind
> >> Power:
> >> 1) It would require so much strong wind to turn the motor, most of them
> >> output 300watt - 1000watt at voltage not useful to charge your standard
> >> battery. PMA motors are weak, so many times weaker than NON-PMA motors.
> >> I already tested theirs. So be sure you test their motor with load if
> >> you got one, because they use capacitor to mislead the true output. theirs
> >> is a hyper output!.
> >> 2) PMA motor doesn't have any flexibility to adapt to wind power, it's
> >> fixed. Therefore you are a loser if you bought one, its torque cannot be
> >> adjusted to adapt to wind's power.
> >> 3) The PMA makers are usually jalous poeple, they're afraid you will invade
> >> their market, they would try to eliminate your idea if you have something
> >> better.
> >> 4) THE PMA-MOTOR USERS/MAKERS called Adjustable Torque motors as junk,
> >> BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T TRIED IT, and they don't know anything about it.
> >>