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A question about coil winding - Page 4

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Posted by Jim Wilkins on December 6, 2009, 12:55 am
 



Again I say "http://www.mwswire.com/mfilar.htm"


Posted by Josepi on December 6, 2009, 3:08 am
 


Thanx! I must have missed the link last time.

I can't see where four or two strands would save any work though. Too manny
splices would be a lot of work inside a motor bell. I can see a complex iron
warpping scheme may work quite well with this cable. Thermal conduction may
be a boon.



Again I say "http://www.mwswire.com/mfilar.htm"



Posted by Michael B on December 6, 2009, 3:31 am
 

Suppose your jig is not very sophisticated, and you're
trying to use #36 wire. It needs such tender care to keep
from breaking it. And to carefully lay it down alongside
the prior turn to keep from wasting space.
But suppose there are 6 of the #36 wires all snugly
combined as insulated wires, easily wound onto a coil
form with minimal wasted space.  And a single
connection at each end, with all the wires pretinned.
Also keeps there from being a higher voltage differential
from coil portions.
Now the question is, if you have 6 wires in that combo,
and you wind it so that you have 500 turns, does the
magnet see it as 3,000 turns? And if not, why not?



Posted by Josepi on December 6, 2009, 4:02 am
 

Yes, you have 500 x 6 = 3000 turns but you have to make five splices and
insulate them. These would consist of five conductors being connected from
the inner most layer to the outermost layer. You could also have a voltage
jumping problem through your insulation as the voltage at one end will be
connected to wiring in your non-sheathed cable, that is connected to the
other end of the potential difference. You appear to aware of this problem
already.

In transformers this can be done with interlayer insulation paper or
materials. In free form coil winding the outer layer has many layers of
turns between the inner layer at the other end of the voltage supply. It
isn't always perfect but the inter-turn insulation has to be good enough to
insulate against voltage punchthough at the highest voltage difference used.

Suppose your jig is not very sophisticated, and you're
trying to use #36 wire. It needs such tender care to keep
from breaking it. And to carefully lay it down alongside
the prior turn to keep from wasting space.
But suppose there are 6 of the #36 wires all snugly
combined as insulated wires, easily wound onto a coil
form with minimal wasted space.  And a single
connection at each end, with all the wires pretinned.
Also keeps there from being a higher voltage differential
from coil portions.
Now the question is, if you have 6 wires in that combo,
and you wind it so that you have 500 turns, does the
magnet see it as 3,000 turns? And if not, why not?



Posted by m II on December 6, 2009, 5:36 am
 

Josepi wrote:


No. That is not the case. There are two splices, each of six parallel
wires, one splice at each end of the bundle. The inner and outer layers
would not be connected to each other. They would be feeding either
another coil or the output/input lines.


No. The varnish, glyptal, conformal etc. has only to be of sufficient
dielectric strength to resist the potential difference of the adjacent
wire. Look at a Tesla coil.

If the coating on the wire is good for 120 volts to ground, it is good
for 240 volts between two strands. Even the voltage between two layers
would be the line to line voltage divided by the number of layers. That
is far less than the 'highest voltage'.


In something low voltage, like a home made windmill, the relative
potential differences are so low as to be negligible.




mike

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