Posted by barry on February 19, 2007, 3:21 pm
> > Taunto wrote:
> > > I'm just trying to figure some efficient, cost effective ways to
> > > "time-shift" energy usage, for charging at night when rates
> > > are cheap, and discharging when not.
> > That would only work assuming you are charged based on time-of-day
> > use. Not many people are.
> > What about having a situation where you would mechanically lift some
> > large mass using excess energy (solar, wind, low-cost utility power,
> > etc) and then use the stored kinetic energy when you need to convert
> > it back to electricity by running a generator as the mass is lowered.
> > Efficiency would depend on how much you could reduce friction I guess.
> > See these:
> >http://www.columbia.edu/~zk30/gravity.html
> >http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/energy_20storage_20gravity
> Some utilities are experimenting with RTP, real time pricing, for
> consumers who sign up for it. Usually the consumer will save, but
> some months they might pay more. Overall they save. This allows
> consumers to adapt their lifestyle to avoid using electricity when
> prices, to the utility, are highest. I'm just looking for ways to
> help the consumer smooth over the bumps and still save.
> Some utilities are already using underground caverns to store
> compressed air during the evening, and reversing it during the day. I
> was looking for something that a home could use.
Actually much mo-betta is pumped storage, like NE utilities have
been doing since the forties. Pump from river up to lake during low
demand; flow down to river through turbines for peak demand.
In CT, Candlewood Lake is one huge "storage tank." Another is
up on a mountain in MA.
J
Posted by d.s. on February 19, 2007, 3:37 pm
On Feb 19, 12:21 pm, b...@sme-online.com wrote:
> > > Taunto wrote:
> > > > I'm just trying to figure some efficient, cost effective ways to
> > > > "time-shift" energy usage, for charging at night when rates
> > > > are cheap, and discharging when not.
> > > That would only work assuming you are charged based on time-of-day
> > > use. Not many people are.
> > > What about having a situation where you would mechanically lift some
> > > large mass using excess energy (solar, wind, low-cost utility power,
> > > etc) and then use the stored kinetic energy when you need to convert
> > > it back to electricity by running a generator as the mass is lowered.
> > > Efficiency would depend on how much you could reduce friction I guess.
> > > See these:
> > >http://www.columbia.edu/~zk30/gravity.html
> > >http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/energy_20storage_20gravity
> > Some utilities are experimenting with RTP, real time pricing, for
> > consumers who sign up for it. Usually the consumer will save, but
> > some months they might pay more. Overall they save. This allows
> > consumers to adapt their lifestyle to avoid using electricity when
> > prices, to the utility, are highest. I'm just looking for ways to
> > help the consumer smooth over the bumps and still save.
> > Some utilities are already using underground caverns to store
> > compressed air during the evening, and reversing it during the day. I
> > was looking for something that a home could use.
> Actually much mo-betta is pumped storage, like NE utilities have
> been doing since the forties. Pump from river up to lake during low
> demand; flow down to river through turbines for peak demand.
> In CT, Candlewood Lake is one huge "storage tank." Another is
> up on a mountain in MA.
California has that too, at Helms. I was looking for something an
individual residence could use.
Posted by Neon John on February 19, 2007, 4:02 pm
>California has that too, at Helms. I was looking for something an
>individual residence could use.
The list of practical electrical energy storage methods that the
average homeowner can use and not spend a fortune or take on a
national research project, and that are fairly efficient:
1. Batteries.
That's it.
If you want to store heat energy then phase change storage (substances
that melt and freeze) is a very effective solution. Paraffin (wax,
the US kind, not UK kerosene) is a very good medium. It has a decent
heat of fusion and melts at a convenient temperature (~140 to 180 deg,
depending on blend). There are companies that sell phase change media
encapsulated in convenient balls that can simply be poured into a
water tank to more than double the heat storage capacity of a tank
full of water alone.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
Posted by d.s. on February 19, 2007, 4:54 pm
> >California has that too, at Helms. I was looking for something an
> >individual residence could use.
> The list of practical electrical energy storage methods that the
> average homeowner can use and not spend a fortune or take on a
> national research project, and that are fairly efficient:
> 1. Batteries.
> That's it.
> If you want to store heat energy then phase change storage (substances
> that melt and freeze) is a very effective solution. Paraffin (wax,
> the US kind, not UK kerosene) is a very good medium. It has a decent
> heat of fusion and melts at a convenient temperature (~140 to 180 deg,
> depending on blend). There are companies that sell phase change media
> encapsulated in convenient balls that can simply be poured into a
> water tank to more than double the heat storage capacity of a tank
> full of water alone.
ARe there major appliances that run on both AC and DC?
Posted by Eeyore on February 19, 2007, 5:14 pm
"d.s." wrote:
> >
> > >California has that too, at Helms. I was looking for something an
> > >individual residence could use.
> >
> > The list of practical electrical energy storage methods that the
> > average homeowner can use and not spend a fortune or take on a
> > national research project, and that are fairly efficient:
> >
> > 1. Batteries.
> >
> > That's it.
> >
> > If you want to store heat energy then phase change storage (substances
> > that melt and freeze) is a very effective solution. Paraffin (wax,
> > the US kind, not UK kerosene) is a very good medium. It has a decent
> > heat of fusion and melts at a convenient temperature (~140 to 180 deg,
> > depending on blend). There are companies that sell phase change media
> > encapsulated in convenient balls that can simply be poured into a
> > water tank to more than double the heat storage capacity of a tank
> > full of water alone.
> ARe there major appliances that run on both AC and DC?
Resistance heaters.
Graham
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> > > I'm just trying to figure some efficient, cost effective ways to
> > > "time-shift" energy usage, for charging at night when rates
> > > are cheap, and discharging when not.
> > That would only work assuming you are charged based on time-of-day
> > use. Not many people are.
> > What about having a situation where you would mechanically lift some
> > large mass using excess energy (solar, wind, low-cost utility power,
> > etc) and then use the stored kinetic energy when you need to convert
> > it back to electricity by running a generator as the mass is lowered.
> > Efficiency would depend on how much you could reduce friction I guess.
> > See these:
> >http://www.columbia.edu/~zk30/gravity.html
> >http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/energy_20storage_20gravity
> Some utilities are experimenting with RTP, real time pricing, for
> consumers who sign up for it. Usually the consumer will save, but
> some months they might pay more. Overall they save. This allows
> consumers to adapt their lifestyle to avoid using electricity when
> prices, to the utility, are highest. I'm just looking for ways to
> help the consumer smooth over the bumps and still save.
> Some utilities are already using underground caverns to store
> compressed air during the evening, and reversing it during the day. I
> was looking for something that a home could use.