Preferably cheap (naturally). I have several acres of brushland and a good
source for broken wood pallet scraps so I'm considering a small scale
biomass generating plant. The boiler I can handle (safely, if not
"officially approved"), and I could build a piston engine but I imagine a
turbine would be more efficient.
Comments?
Sources?
I'm a flaming lunatic?
LG
--
"The United States is like a giant boiler. When the fire is finally lighted
under it, there is no limit to the power it can generate." - Winston
Churchill
Ok,
Here is a dump of some of the research I did on steam engines both
piston and turbine.
My conclusions (for what that is worth) is that if you are building a
single stage plant under 75Hp is way more cost efficient to buy plans
for a piston engine and boiler and have a local machine shop build it.
If you are going to buy go with Mike Brown he has a 3Hp & 20Hp self
starters (2 cylinders). He does not have much competition and his
prices reflect it, but his stuff gets good reviews (what little
reviews there are).
I highly recommend some reading and a spread sheet first; steam can
convert a mountain of wood chips (and work) into surprisingly little
electricity. I have a spread sheets on piston and Tesla turbines if
you want.
Still if you have a stable resource I like steam.
Good Luck.
Curbie
Mike Brown (Finished Piston Enines 1Hp $1200.00, 3Hp $2400.00, 20Hp
$6500.00)
http://home.earthlink.net/~dlaw70/12stmng.htm
Reliable Steam Engines (Piston Plans $50.00, Turbine Plans $50.00,
Boiler Plans $30.00, piston 4-200 Hp, turbine 5Hp)
http://members.pioneer.net/~carlich/RSE/RSEengines.html
Tesla Tubine (Finished Turbine 1Hp $7000,00)
http://www.phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/turbogen.htm
Link to a engineering student's who re-designed the Reliable Steam
Engines turbine for low RPM Electricity generation (small scale)
http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses_1/available/etd-01052007-181917/unrestricted/Newton_Manuscript.pdf
Google Books
Steam_Boiler_Engineering.pdf
Steam_Boilers.pdf
Steam_engine_Principles_and_Practice.pdf
Steam_Power_Plant_Auxiliaries_and_Access.pdf
Steam_Power_Plant_Engineering.pdf
Piston Spread Sheet
Steam Horse Power (P.L.A.N.)
Pressure (P) 200 PSI
Length of Stroke (L) 8 In.
Bore (Bore) 1.81 In.
Bore in millimeters 45.974 mm
Connecting Rod Diameter (Rd) 0.5 In.
Cylindars (Cyls) 1
Single or Double Acting (Act) 2
RPM (N) 600 RPM
Friction Losses (i) 5%
Hertz (hz) 10 Hz.
Area of Bore (A) 4.75 In.
Steam Horse Power (HP) 11.52 HP
Brake Horse Power (BHP) 10.95 BHP
Load
Minimum Required Load 1000 Watts
Maximum Required Load 8000 Watts
Calculated Output 8167 Watts
Minimum Required HP 1.34 HP
Maximum Required HP 10.72 HP
1 Horse Power (hp2W) 746 Watts
Generator
Frequency (f) 60 Hz.
Number of Poles (Np) 12 Poles
Tesla Turbine Spread Sheet
Turbine Input Parameters
Disk Diameter 9 Inches
Disk Gap 0.2 Inches
Disk Stack Increamentation 1 Units
Minimum Number of Disks 6 Disks
RPM Increamentation 3000 Units
Minimum RPM 3000 RPMs
Turbine Output Parameters
Disk Vent Radius (R1) 0.056 Meters
Disk Outer Radius (R2) 0.114 Meters
Vent Diameter 4.379 Inches
Half Gap (h) 0.005 Meters
Constants
Dynamic Viscosity for air (mu) 0.0000179 Ns/m^2
RPM to Radians 0.1047 Radians
Newton Meter to Lb. Ft. Torque 1.3558
HP (Elec) to LB. of force Ft./s 550.2200
Turbine Vent to Rim Ratio (Tasla's) 0.4866
Number of Disks Test Points 5 Points
Number of RPM Test Points 10 Points
Electric Horse-Power
Disk TP 1 Disk
TP 2 Disk TP 3 Disk TP 4 Disk TP 5
Number of Disks
Disk Parameters w Vtheta Gamma Pd RPM 6 7
8 9 10
RPM Test Point 1 314.2 35.9 25.8 1.7 3000 0.0
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
RPM Test Point 2 628.3 71.8 51.6 6.8 6000 0.0
0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1
RPM Test Point 3 942.5 107.7 77.4 15.4 9000 0.1
0.1 0.1 0.2 0.2
RPM Test Point 4 1256.6 143.6 103.2 27.3 12000 0.2
0.2 0.3 0.3 0.3
RPM Test Point 5 1570.8 179.5 128.9 42.7 15000 0.3
0.3 0.4 0.5 0.5
RPM Test Point 6 1885.0 215.5 154.7 61.5 18000 0.4
0.5 0.6 0.7 0.7
RPM Test Point 7 2199.1 251.4 180.5 83.7 21000 0.6
0.7 0.8 0.9 1.0
RPM Test Point 8 2513.3 287.3 206.3 109.3 24000 0.7
0.9 1.0 1.2 1.3
RPM Test Point 9 2827.4 323.2 232.1 138.3 27000 0.9
1.1 1.3 1.5 1.7
RPM Test Point 10 3141.6 359.1 257.9 170.8 30000 1.1
1.4 1.6 1.8 2.1
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:35:51 -0400, "Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's
>Preferably cheap (naturally). I have several acres of brushland and a good
>source for broken wood pallet scraps so I'm considering a small scale
>biomass generating plant. The boiler I can handle (safely, if not
>"officially approved"), and I could build a piston engine but I imagine a
>turbine would be more efficient.
>Comments?
>Sources?
>I'm a flaming lunatic?
>LG
> Ok,
> Here is a dump of some of the research I did on steam engines both
> piston and turbine.
> My conclusions (for what that is worth) is that if you are building a
> single stage plant under 75Hp is way more cost efficient to buy plans
> for a piston engine and boiler and have a local machine shop build it.
> If you are going to buy go with Mike Brown he has a 3Hp & 20Hp self
> starters (2 cylinders). He does not have much competition and his
> prices reflect it, but his stuff gets good reviews (what little
> reviews there are).
> I highly recommend some reading and a spread sheet first; steam can
> convert a mountain of wood chips (and work) into surprisingly little
> electricity. I have a spread sheets on piston and Tesla turbines if
> you want.
> Still if you have a stable resource I like steam.
> Good Luck.
> Curbie
> Mike Brown (Finished Piston Enines 1Hp $1200.00, 3Hp $2400.00, 20Hp
> $6500.00)
> http://home.earthlink.net/~dlaw70/12stmng.htm
> Reliable Steam Engines (Piston Plans $50.00, Turbine Plans $50.00,
> Boiler Plans $30.00, piston 4-200 Hp, turbine 5Hp)
> http://members.pioneer.net/~carlich/RSE/RSEengines.html
> Tesla Tubine (Finished Turbine 1Hp $7000,00)
> http://www.phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/turbogen.htm
> Link to a engineering student's who re-designed the Reliable Steam
> Engines turbine for low RPM Electricity generation (small scale)
>
http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses_1/available/etd-01052007-181917/unrestricted/Newton_Manuscript.pdf
> Google Books
> Steam_Boiler_Engineering.pdf
> Steam_Boilers.pdf
> Steam_engine_Principles_and_Practice.pdf
> Steam_Power_Plant_Auxiliaries_and_Access.pdf
> Steam_Power_Plant_Engineering.pdf
> Piston Spread Sheet
> Steam Horse Power (P.L.A.N.)
> Pressure (P) 200 PSI
> Length of Stroke (L) 8 In.
> Bore (Bore) 1.81 In.
> Bore in millimeters 45.974 mm
> Connecting Rod Diameter (Rd) 0.5 In.
> Cylindars (Cyls) 1
> Single or Double Acting (Act) 2
> RPM (N) 600 RPM
> Friction Losses (i) 5%
> Hertz (hz) 10 Hz.
> Area of Bore (A) 4.75 In.
> Steam Horse Power (HP) 11.52 HP
> Brake Horse Power (BHP) 10.95 BHP
> Load
> Minimum Required Load 1000 Watts
> Maximum Required Load 8000 Watts
> Calculated Output 8167 Watts
> Minimum Required HP 1.34 HP
> Maximum Required HP 10.72 HP
> 1 Horse Power (hp2W) 746 Watts
> Generator
> Frequency (f) 60 Hz.
> Number of Poles (Np) 12 Poles
> Tesla Turbine Spread Sheet
> Turbine Input Parameters
> Disk Diameter 9 Inches
> Disk Gap 0.2 Inches
> Disk Stack Increamentation 1 Units
> Minimum Number of Disks 6 Disks
> RPM Increamentation 3000 Units
> Minimum RPM 3000 RPMs
> Turbine Output Parameters
> Disk Vent Radius (R1) 0.056 Meters
> Disk Outer Radius (R2) 0.114 Meters
> Vent Diameter 4.379 Inches
> Half Gap (h) 0.005 Meters
> Constants
> Dynamic Viscosity for air (mu) 0.0000179 Ns/m^2
> RPM to Radians 0.1047 Radians
> Newton Meter to Lb. Ft. Torque 1.3558
> HP (Elec) to LB. of force Ft./s 550.2200
> Turbine Vent to Rim Ratio (Tasla's) 0.4866
> Number of Disks Test Points 5 Points
> Number of RPM Test Points 10 Points
> Electric Horse-Power
> Disk TP 1 Disk
> TP 2 Disk TP 3 Disk TP 4 Disk TP 5
> Number of Disks
> Disk Parameters w Vtheta Gamma Pd RPM 6 7
> 8 9 10
> RPM Test Point 1 314.2 35.9 25.8 1.7 3000 0.0
> 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
> RPM Test Point 2 628.3 71.8 51.6 6.8 6000 0.0
> 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1
> RPM Test Point 3 942.5 107.7 77.4 15.4 9000 0.1
> 0.1 0.1 0.2 0.2
> RPM Test Point 4 1256.6 143.6 103.2 27.3 12000 0.2
> 0.2 0.3 0.3 0.3
> RPM Test Point 5 1570.8 179.5 128.9 42.7 15000 0.3
> 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.5
> RPM Test Point 6 1885.0 215.5 154.7 61.5 18000 0.4
> 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.7
> RPM Test Point 7 2199.1 251.4 180.5 83.7 21000 0.6
> 0.7 0.8 0.9 1.0
> RPM Test Point 8 2513.3 287.3 206.3 109.3 24000 0.7
> 0.9 1.0 1.2 1.3
> RPM Test Point 9 2827.4 323.2 232.1 138.3 27000 0.9
> 1.1 1.3 1.5 1.7
> RPM Test Point 10 3141.6 359.1 257.9 170.8 30000 1.1
> 1.4 1.6 1.8 2.1
WOW! Thanks! Looks like I've got some reading to do. I may also just use the
steam engine in place of electric motors or gas engines for various farm
tasks, a la 1800s threshing machines.
Or I may just make a wood fired water heater... :-)
Thanks again.
LG
--
"Keep it simple. If it takes a genius to understand it, it will never work."
- Clarence Leonard "Kelly" Johnson
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:28:06 -0400, "Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's
>Or I may just make a wood fired water heater
A wood fired water heater may not be such a bad idea. It's been a
couple a years since I worked the math for steam but my foggy
impression is that unless you have a BIG fuel supply (which led me to
bio renewable/grown oil or ethanol) the commitment is large enough
that you will exhaust your fuel before you get a meaningful return.
Home grown and made bio-diesel or ethanol led me to I.C.E.s, but maybe
you'll see something different, keep me updated if you chase steam. If
you're looking at a multi-function steam engine, a piston steam engine
is the only choice.
Have Fun.
Curbie
> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:28:06 -0400, "Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's
> >Or I may just make a wood fired water heater
> A wood fired water heater may not be such a bad idea. It's been a
> couple a years since I worked the math for steam but my foggy
> impression is that unless you have a BIG fuel supply (which led me to
> bio renewable/grown oil or ethanol) the commitment is large enough
> that you will exhaust your fuel before you get a meaningful return.
> Home grown and made bio-diesel or ethanol led me to I.C.E.s, but maybe
> you'll see something different, keep me updated if you chase steam. If
> you're looking at a multi-function steam engine, a piston steam engine
> is the only choice.
> Have Fun.
> Curbie
With the limited amount of information I was able to find (nowhere near what
you found/determined) I came to a similar conclusion about the piston
engines. So, what do you have to say about using a solar furnace to power a
piston steam engine? The fuel is fairly inexpensive. I would simply do it
if I had a good idea that it would be worthwhile.
XML site map
>source for broken wood pallet scraps so I'm considering a small scale
>biomass generating plant. The boiler I can handle (safely, if not
>"officially approved"), and I could build a piston engine but I imagine a
>turbine would be more efficient.
>Comments?
>Sources?
>I'm a flaming lunatic?
>LG