Posted by Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's n on May 27, 2009, 11:23 am
> It would seem that if someone went through the effort of growing of a
> feed-crop and were bright enough to figure out the transesterification
> process, they might be bright enough to Google "Diesel Fuel Heaters",
> although bio-diesel does have known problems with the cold, to a
> certain extent so do plain old diesels and diesel fuel heaters have
> been around for decades.
They have additives for petrol diesel tho that keep it flowing in the cold.
These are usually blended in before delivery, but are also available "over
the counter". I do not know if they work on biodiesel, but most conversions
seem to have heaters involved so I'd guess not.
> I prefer ethanol to bio-diesel for simplicity reasons,
On a commercial scale I'd dare say that they are about equal. Corn is ground
up and distilled into ethanol, soybeans are pressed and chemically converted
into biodiesel. Both have their assorted intermediate processes of course,
and both yield leftovers for cattle.
And both could be done more efficiently with better feedstock. I'm pretty
sure that sugar cane trumps corn for ethanol production, and most oil press
websites rank soybeans as one of the lowest for oil output.
>but have
> friends in Wisconsin that make and use bio-diesel year round and at
> least when I lived there, it got cold enough to were I had to plug my
> gasoline car in at night so it would start next morning.
That was probably a block heater to keep the coolant and crankcase oil warm.
Untreated diesel and biodiesel needs extra heaters thruout the fuel system
to keep the fuel from gelling, or as I said a second tank for the bio and
valves to switch back to petrol before shutdown.
(now that I think about it, maybe that's with straight filtered fryer
grease, not true biodiesel)
Fortunately between it not getting that cold here and buying treated fuel I
haven't had a problem with petrol.
That's why I like the idea of using bio in home furnaces. You can have all
the heaters and extra tanks you need without hauling around the extra
weight.
> LG, didn't homepower or Mother's do an article on corn feed stoves? I
> remember reading an article once.
There have been numerous articles all over the place about them, mostly a
few years back when they first came out. I'm fortunate enough to be ass deep
in firewood, but if I wasn't I'd probably be heating with corn. And again
with the stoves you save all the processing involved in ethanol (tho lose
out on the cattle feed byproduct) and can save the diesel fuel for powering
the vehicles.
Plus it smells better. :-)
LG
--
"Keep it simple. If it takes a genius to understand it, it will never work."
- Clarence Leonard "Kelly" Johnson
Posted by Alistair Gunn on May 27, 2009, 12:26 pm
Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan! twisted the electrons to say:
> They have additives for petrol diesel tho that keep it flowing in the
> cold. These are usually blended in before delivery, but are also
> available "over the counter". I do not know if they work on biodiesel,
> but most conversions seem to have heaters involved so I'd guess not.
No connection other than a Google search, but this website
<http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html>
... seems to have found some antigel addititves for biodiesel ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
Posted by Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's n on May 27, 2009, 9:01 pm
> Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan! twisted the electrons to say:
>> They have additives for petrol diesel tho that keep it flowing in the
>> cold. These are usually blended in before delivery, but are also
>> available "over the counter". I do not know if they work on biodiesel,
>> but most conversions seem to have heaters involved so I'd guess not.
> No connection other than a Google search, but this website
> <http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html>
> ... seems to have found some antigel addititves for biodiesel ...
Cool.
LG
--
"Keep it simple. If it takes a genius to understand it, it will never work."
- Clarence Leonard “Kelly” Johnson
Posted by Curbie on May 27, 2009, 4:54 pm
LG,
>They have additives for petrol diesel tho that keep it flowing in the cold.
>These are usually blended in before delivery, but are also available "over
>the counter". I do not know if they work on biodiesel, but most conversions
>seem to have heaters involved so I'd guess not.
Bio-diesel can start reaching its "cloud" point at 38°F (as high as
60°F for used oil), it reaches its "pour" point by subtracting
another roughly 18°F and then reaches its "gel" point by subtracting
another roughly 18°F. These temperature points all depend on amount of
"fatty acid" in the oil, the more fatty acid, the higher the starting
temperature points.
At the "cloud" point congealed fatty acid can clog-up fuel filters, at
"pour" point fuel won't flow through fuels lines, and at "gel" point
you have a tank of jello. Petrol-diesel has the same temperature
issues although the starting point and ranges are different. A cold
weather fuel additive will help, but at a cost of abut $00.06 per
gallon. http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/acf.aspx
There two cold weather issues inherent to all diesels starting and
running. Staring usually involves plug-in (electrical) fuel-line &
fuel-tank heater and running usually involves heaters that use engine
heat from the cooling system for both fuel-lines and fuel-tank. In my
view you will need the starting & running heaters (called a cold
weather kit) anyway, so start there and only use fuel additives if or
when needed.
>That was probably a block heater to keep the coolant and crankcase oil warm.
It was, but it ties into the concept of already having to plug your
car in at night for cold-climates.
>Untreated diesel and biodiesel needs extra heaters thruout the fuel system
>to keep the fuel from gelling, or as I said a second tank for the bio and
>valves to switch back to petrol before shutdown.
>(now that I think about it, maybe that's with straight filtered fryer
>grease, not true biodiesel)
Your correct, not bio-diesel, it goes back to the fatty acid issue.
>On a commercial scale I'd dare say that they are about equal.
On a home-scale which is my focus, you can either buy methanol (a
product subject to cost and availability of the fossil-fuel market) or
grow ethanol, so for me anyway, I'd have grow and process two
feed-crop for bio-diesel, one for oil and one feed-crop for ethanol,
there's also an issue of what feed-crop will grow in your location to
consider.
>Corn is ground up and distilled into ethanol
Your corn example is interesting, corn contains both oil (bio-diesel)
and ethanol, and it seems to me that corn could first be pressed for
its oil and separated from the non-oil liquids from the pressing, if
you then add the non-oil liquids back to the remaining silage to
produce ethanol, is there enough ethanol produced to for the oil
produced to make bio-diesel from one feed-crop (corn)?
That could be a single feed-crop solution for home bio-diesel?
I'd be interested if anyone knows.
Curbie
Posted by News on May 27, 2009, 5:15 pm
> That was probably a block heater to keep the coolant and crankcase oil
> warm. Untreated diesel and biodiesel needs extra heaters thruout the fuel
> system to keep the fuel from gelling, or as I said a second tank for the
> bio and valves to switch back to petrol before shutdown.
I recall truck drivers in Turkey having open fires under their diesel truck
tanks to stop it solidify.
XML site map
> feed-crop and were bright enough to figure out the transesterification
> process, they might be bright enough to Google "Diesel Fuel Heaters",
> although bio-diesel does have known problems with the cold, to a
> certain extent so do plain old diesels and diesel fuel heaters have
> been around for decades.