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Posted by Brad Guth on March 2, 2010, 3:27 am
 



I'm certain that such Bloom Box energy as derived from natural gas
does work, although it's spendier than what we're being informed of.
I'm thinking the initial energy cost of $.22 < 0.25/kwhr once
everything is taken into account, and then we prey the cost per therm
doesn't skyrocket, such as in the winter when demand is greatest..

As a reliable and clean UPS alternative that'll cost loads to buy,
install and maintain, perhaps $.25/kwhr isn't half bad.

Here's my revised estimate:
I'd believe its more like at least $6,000 for a 24 kw Bloom unit
($500/kw), and by then the price per natural gas therm at perhaps
twice whatever it's currently running seems likely.

The retrofit cost of getting a commercial grade of NG into an average
residence is by itself worth tens of thousands of dollars (figure
another $0,000 if that NG utility upgrade includes their HVAC and all
major appliances), as well as something for multiplying those number
of residential fires, explosions and CO2 caused deaths from this
increased NG infrastructure and usage should be fairly obvious.

Of course you may require up to half of that 24 kw Bloom Box energy
just to recharge your $0,000 all electric cars (at least two per
residence at perhaps 32 kwhr each) that'll each also require a new
spendy battery at least every three years.

The average mid/upper-class residential NG consumption of 1200 therms/
year should w/Bloom in place of whatever electric utility from the
local grid, might go upwards towards 12,000 therms/year, and at $/
therm that's going to hurt a little, not to mention those having to
pay $/therm (only the lucky ones will ever get to pay $/therm).

You dont seriously think those future natural gas prices and their
soon to be applied energy taxes are ever going to fall from here on
out, do you?

The natural gas utility as a mandatory community infrastructure and
subsequent property assessment where I live could easily exceed
$0,000 all by itself, and that's not even including getting that NG
into my home.  In most places current provided with piped in NG, at
times theres not sufficient capacity as is w/o Bloom Boxes, so were
talking about a nation-wide upgrade in that volumetric supply of
methane and a verity of other elements, none of which are
environmentally friendly.

What's the annual maintenance cost on a 24 KW (100 amp at 240 VAC)
Bloom Box?

If theres any spendy batteries involved (especially on these 12 KW or
lower capacity units), how much are those going to cost/year to
maintain?

Rental homes or condos will be lucky if such equipment (at 900 kg/kw)
isnt often taken for its scrap alloy and black market value.  So,
perhaps wed need to include a substantial vault or secure jail as
part of its installation.

If we believe Blooms 60% conversion efficiency, this should give 17.5
kwhr per therm.   If the cost per NG therm can be kept or market
forced to stay at or below $ would suggest $.057/kwhr (not including
the added investments and servicing necessary), whereas all-inclusive
other cost of perhaps adding another ten cents per kwhr makes the
Bloom energy gross out at $.16/kwhr as based upon $/therm thats
highly unlikely, whereas $/therm is more likely and will make that
energy worth $.22/kwhr.

Bloom Box energy seems perfectly ideal for the rich and powerful, or
for those corporate and government usage where its all-inclusive
investment and operational cost are seldom if ever considerations, but
otherwise Bloom is not so great for most of us.

Perhaps this is where Mook's green H2 consumption is a whole lot
better idea, or at least as a 25/75 blend of H2/NG, whereas <12 KW
Bloom units could manage on existing NG capacity if  fewer than half
the homes per community are taking their share.

 ~ BG

Posted by Dorsai on March 2, 2010, 5:39 am
 


On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:27:51 -0800, Brad Guth wrote:


Pity so many of the _tech_ news reports on the things specify that
they'll operate on pretty much any hydrocarbon - propane, biodiesel,
whatever. Kinda shoots all that NG math in the ass...

Of course, that's figuring Bloom doesn't go all industrial and start mass-
producing them in varying sizes. And somebody doesn't figure out how to
utilize some/most of the byproducts to supplement other needs. And that
distributing the things all over creation doesn't result in savings in
reduced power grid needs.

Nice rant, though.

Dorsai
--
Dorsai -- Author of Erotic Fiction
http://www.asstr.org/~Dorsai

Posted by vaughn on March 2, 2010, 12:48 pm
 



   How so?  What fuel do you expect will be cheaper than NG?

Vaughn



Posted by Brad Guth on March 3, 2010, 2:07 am
 


Mook's green hydrogen is supposed to become dirt cheap.

What's a volume of hydrogen gas that'll deliver a therm (100,000 btu),
and whats the Bloom efficiency when run on a therm of hydrogen? (370
cf or 10.5 m3 at 1.1 bar = ?? kwhr)

Of course H2 could be supplied at 2 bar (+14.7 psi), thus providing
<540 btu/cf, roughly half if what methane(CH4) provides within the
residence.

Hydrogen gas distribution mains at <1500 psi = 27000 btu/cf.

 ~ BG

Posted by vaughn on March 3, 2010, 2:54 am
 



It takes energy to make hydrogen, and then you still have to transport it.
Since hydrogen has a low energy density, transportation turns into a real
problem.  In short, I don't expect to ever see cheap hydrogen.

So who is Mook?

Vaughn




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