Posted by GregP on February 3, 2007, 2:38 am
On Feb 2, 6:09 am, "Deputy Dumbya Dawg"
> message :
> : This new law would be based on a myth about light
> bulbs...
> :
> : For years the Federal Energy Star program has
> perpetuated the myth
> : that if you buy appliances (or any electrical device)
> for the home
> : that uses less energy, you'll see proportional
> savings in your monthly
> : power bill. This is rarely the case.
> :
> : Other eco-writers do similar simplistic math to
> calculate savings in
> : money, energy and carbon. A recent example is Charles
> Fishman's
> : September 2006 article in Fast Company magazine about
> WalMart's CFL
> : project, "How Many Lightbulbs Does it Take to Change
> the World?".
> :
> : The claim is made that if a single light bulb using
> 45 watts less is
> : placed in 100 million homes, 6.57 billion
> Kilo-Watt-Hours will be
> : saved. The fact is, unless you are cooling your home,
> there is ZERO
> : savings. Charles focused on the bulb, but forgot
> about the home. His
> : entire premise is based on a false assumption. The
> savings are grossly
> : exaggerated.
> :
> : "Wasted" energy takes the form of heat. And this heat
> helps heat your
> : house, if only just a small amount. For most of
> America, for most of
> : the year, that 45 watts will be automatically added
> back in by the
> : home heating system to maintain the same level of
> comfort. If the home
> : is heated with electricity, the savings in dollars,
> energy and carbon
> : production is literally ZERO.
> : Will someone please tell me what I've missed before
> this becomes law?
> Agreeing with you winter heated home case above the
> following remains true:
> 1) In the summer your AC will not have to work as hard
> to maintain thermostat settings by not being loaded by
> the heat difference between the compact florescent and
> an incandescent bulbs.
> 2) In places where there is no heat or air conditioning
> just a grass hut with a bulb in in ( like Fiji or New
> Orleans for instance) the more efficient CF light will
> just use a third of the electricity producing visible
> light period.
> A watt saved is a watt earned.
> Peace
> dawg
Why make a law to force people to save money? Sooner of later people
will just stop buying incandescent bulbs anyway because they are
becoming obsolete technology just like typewriters.
Btw, really childish nickname.
Posted by Derek Broughton on February 2, 2007, 8:58 am
Sudden Disruption wrote:
> It's scary how myth becomes fashion, and fashion becomes law...
It's scary how people turn reasonable legislation into myth.
> A California assemblyman wants to ban incandescent light bulbs...
>
> A California lawmaker wants to ban the use of incandescent light bulbs
> in order to conserve energy and reduce greenhouse gases which are
> linked to global warming.
>
> The "How Many Legislators Does it Take to Change a Light Bulb Act"
> would ban the use of incandescent light bulbs by 2012.
No, it would ban the sale and manufacture of "general use" light bulbs.
> For years the Federal Energy Star program has perpetuated the myth
> that if you buy appliances (or any electrical device) for the home
> that uses less energy, you'll see proportional savings in your monthly
> power bill. This is rarely the case.
How so. I use less power, I spend less money. It's working really well for
me!
> The fact is, unless you are cooling your home, there is ZERO
> savings.
Absolutely true. However, Southern Californians are cooling their homes
(or, if they're Green, suffering with excess heat) more than half the year.
I've been in LA in January, and it's shorts and t-shirt weather.
> "Wasted" energy takes the form of heat. And this heat helps heat your
> house, if only just a small amount. For most of America, for most of
> the year, that 45 watts will be automatically added back in by the
> home heating system to maintain the same level of comfort.
For most of America, _some_ of the year, but for ALL of America there's a
significant part of the year that that is not the case.
> If the home
> is heated with electricity, the savings in dollars, energy and carbon
> production is literally ZERO.
For the heating months...
> Will someone please tell me what I've missed before this becomes law?
Common sense.
--
derek
Posted by Snap Whipcrack.............. on February 2, 2007, 11:04 am
Sudden Disruption wrote:
> It's scary how myth becomes fashion, and fashion becomes law...
>
> A California assemblyman wants to ban incandescent light bulbs...
>
> A California lawmaker wants to ban the use of incandescent light bulbs
> in order to conserve energy and reduce greenhouse gases which are
> linked to global warming.
>
> The "How Many Legislators Does it Take to Change a Light Bulb Act"
> would ban the use of incandescent light bulbs by 2012. Instead,
> compact fluorescent light bulbs (COLS) would become the alternative
> for California residents.
>
> The rest of the article is here...
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id (39113&page=1
>
>
>
> This new law would be based on a myth about light bulbs...
>
> For years the Federal Energy Star program has perpetuated the myth
> that if you buy appliances (or any electrical device) for the home
> that uses less energy, you'll see proportional savings in your monthly
> power bill. This is rarely the case.
>
> Other eco-writers do similar simplistic math to calculate savings in
> money, energy and carbon. A recent example is Charles Fishman's
> September 2006 article in Fast Company magazine about WalMart's CFL
> project, "How Many Lightbulbs Does it Take to Change the World?".
>
> The claim is made that if a single light bulb using 45 watts less is
> placed in 100 million homes, 6.57 billion Kilo-Watt-Hours will be
> saved. The fact is, unless you are cooling your home, there is ZERO
> savings. Charles focused on the bulb, but forgot about the home. His
> entire premise is based on a false assumption. The savings are grossly
> exaggerated.
>
> "Wasted" energy takes the form of heat. And this heat helps heat your
> house, if only just a small amount. For most of America, for most of
> the year, that 45 watts will be automatically added back in by the
> home heating system to maintain the same level of comfort. If the home
> is heated with electricity, the savings in dollars, energy and carbon
> production is literally ZERO.
>
> The rest of the blog post is here...
>
> <a href="http://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/2007/02/for-years-
> federal-energy-star-program.html#links">Sudden Disruption: The Energy
> Star Efficiency Myth</a>
>
>
>
>
> Will someone please tell me what I've missed before this becomes law?
>
>
> Sudden Disruption
> --
> Sudden View...
> the radical option for editing text
> http://www.sudden.net/
> http://suddendisruption.blogspot.com
>
Anybody who hasn't replace all their incandescent bulbs with compact
fluorescent bulbs yet is a complete idiot. They are a dime a dozen in
wholesale club stores. Some stores even have rebate coupons from your
power company.
Posted by TRecupero on February 2, 2007, 12:58 pm
For starters, I am a "nuke the baby whales then eat them, dyed in the wool
conservative hate monger" and I am also a very firm believer in
conservation. I own an off grid house with PV cells for the sole electrical
power source. I normally use 1.2 KW a day, measured. I the summer I can keep
the house cool without AC, but pumping 400 watts into the house to run the
lights is just stupid if I can use only 80 with CF lights.
I love those little things, I have them everywhere. I also have some
regular bulbs for OS floods. The CFs do have one drawback, they take 5
minutes to light up fully when it's 5 below.
Electric heat is the most expensive thing there is. You also fail to
take into acount cooling costs, some folks don't live where it's cold. You
also fail to consider interior rooms that require no heat. Is the law
stupid? Damn right it is, but not because it wouldn't save energy, but
because it's Govt getting into our lives and reducing our freedom to choose.
I can't wait till the nutjobs find out that the CFs are loaded with
mercury.
> It's scary how myth becomes fashion, and fashion becomes law...
> A California assemblyman wants to ban incandescent light bulbs...
> A California lawmaker wants to ban the use of incandescent light bulbs
> in order to conserve energy and reduce greenhouse gases which are
> linked to global warming.
> The "How Many Legislators Does it Take to Change a Light Bulb Act"
> would ban the use of incandescent light bulbs by 2012. Instead,
> compact fluorescent light bulbs (COLS) would become the alternative
> for California residents.
> The rest of the article is here...
> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id (39113&page=1
> This new law would be based on a myth about light bulbs...
> For years the Federal Energy Star program has perpetuated the myth
> that if you buy appliances (or any electrical device) for the home
> that uses less energy, you'll see proportional savings in your monthly
> power bill. This is rarely the case.
> Other eco-writers do similar simplistic math to calculate savings in
> money, energy and carbon. A recent example is Charles Fishman's
> September 2006 article in Fast Company magazine about WalMart's CFL
> project, "How Many Lightbulbs Does it Take to Change the World?".
> The claim is made that if a single light bulb using 45 watts less is
> placed in 100 million homes, 6.57 billion Kilo-Watt-Hours will be
> saved. The fact is, unless you are cooling your home, there is ZERO
> savings. Charles focused on the bulb, but forgot about the home. His
> entire premise is based on a false assumption. The savings are grossly
> exaggerated.
> "Wasted" energy takes the form of heat. And this heat helps heat your
> house, if only just a small amount. For most of America, for most of
> the year, that 45 watts will be automatically added back in by the
> home heating system to maintain the same level of comfort. If the home
> is heated with electricity, the savings in dollars, energy and carbon
> production is literally ZERO.
> The rest of the blog post is here...
> <a href="http://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/2007/02/for-years-
> federal-energy-star-program.html#links">Sudden Disruption: The Energy
> Star Efficiency Myth</a>
> Will someone please tell me what I've missed before this becomes law?
> Sudden Disruption
> --
> Sudden View...
> the radical option for editing text
> http://www.sudden.net/
> http://suddendisruption.blogspot.com
Posted by EXT on February 2, 2007, 1:29 pm
For those pushing fluorescent light bulbs in their many versions, have you
considered the down side for the use of these bulbs.
1. The resources and energy it takes to build a CF bulb, it has to exceed
what is needed for a regular incandescent bulb.
2. The cost to buy all CF or other fluorescent bulbs, no matter how cheap
you can buy them they are more expensive than incandescent bulbs.
3. Not all fixtures will accept a CF or other fluorescent bulb, this
requires resources and money to buy replacement fixtures.
4. Despite the hyped long life of fluorescent bulbs, CF bulbs more often
than not have a considerably short life.
5. Most CF and other fluorescent bulbs cannot be dimmed with regular
dimmers, any circuit with electronic dimmer or other controls will have to
be rewired to eliminate these problems.
I have a lot of fluorescent bulbs in my house, but do not feel they are
appropriate for all uses.
> For starters, I am a "nuke the baby whales then eat them, dyed in the wool
> conservative hate monger" and I am also a very firm believer in
> conservation. I own an off grid house with PV cells for the sole
> electrical
> power source. I normally use 1.2 KW a day, measured. I the summer I can
> keep
> the house cool without AC, but pumping 400 watts into the house to run the
> lights is just stupid if I can use only 80 with CF lights.
> I love those little things, I have them everywhere. I also have some
> regular bulbs for OS floods. The CFs do have one drawback, they take 5
> minutes to light up fully when it's 5 below.
> Electric heat is the most expensive thing there is. You also fail to
> take into acount cooling costs, some folks don't live where it's cold. You
> also fail to consider interior rooms that require no heat. Is the law
> stupid? Damn right it is, but not because it wouldn't save energy, but
> because it's Govt getting into our lives and reducing our freedom to
> choose.
> I can't wait till the nutjobs find out that the CFs are loaded with
> mercury.
>> It's scary how myth becomes fashion, and fashion becomes law...
>>
>> A California assemblyman wants to ban incandescent light bulbs...
>>
>> A California lawmaker wants to ban the use of incandescent light bulbs
>> in order to conserve energy and reduce greenhouse gases which are
>> linked to global warming.
>>
>> The "How Many Legislators Does it Take to Change a Light Bulb Act"
>> would ban the use of incandescent light bulbs by 2012. Instead,
>> compact fluorescent light bulbs (COLS) would become the alternative
>> for California residents.
>>
>> The rest of the article is here...
>>
>> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id (39113&page=1
>>
>>
>>
>> This new law would be based on a myth about light bulbs...
>>
>> For years the Federal Energy Star program has perpetuated the myth
>> that if you buy appliances (or any electrical device) for the home
>> that uses less energy, you'll see proportional savings in your monthly
>> power bill. This is rarely the case.
>>
>> Other eco-writers do similar simplistic math to calculate savings in
>> money, energy and carbon. A recent example is Charles Fishman's
>> September 2006 article in Fast Company magazine about WalMart's CFL
>> project, "How Many Lightbulbs Does it Take to Change the World?".
>>
>> The claim is made that if a single light bulb using 45 watts less is
>> placed in 100 million homes, 6.57 billion Kilo-Watt-Hours will be
>> saved. The fact is, unless you are cooling your home, there is ZERO
>> savings. Charles focused on the bulb, but forgot about the home. His
>> entire premise is based on a false assumption. The savings are grossly
>> exaggerated.
>>
>> "Wasted" energy takes the form of heat. And this heat helps heat your
>> house, if only just a small amount. For most of America, for most of
>> the year, that 45 watts will be automatically added back in by the
>> home heating system to maintain the same level of comfort. If the home
>> is heated with electricity, the savings in dollars, energy and carbon
>> production is literally ZERO.
>>
>> The rest of the blog post is here...
>>
>> <a href="http://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/2007/02/for-years-
>> federal-energy-star-program.html#links">Sudden Disruption: The Energy
>> Star Efficiency Myth</a>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Will someone please tell me what I've missed before this becomes law?
>>
>>
>> Sudden Disruption
>> --
>> Sudden View...
>> the radical option for editing text
>> http://www.sudden.net/
>> http://suddendisruption.blogspot.com
>>
>
> : This new law would be based on a myth about light
> bulbs...
> :
> : For years the Federal Energy Star program has
> perpetuated the myth
> : that if you buy appliances (or any electrical device)
> for the home
> : that uses less energy, you'll see proportional
> savings in your monthly
> : power bill. This is rarely the case.
> :
> : Other eco-writers do similar simplistic math to
> calculate savings in
> : money, energy and carbon. A recent example is Charles
> Fishman's
> : September 2006 article in Fast Company magazine about
> WalMart's CFL
> : project, "How Many Lightbulbs Does it Take to Change
> the World?".
> :
> : The claim is made that if a single light bulb using
> 45 watts less is
> : placed in 100 million homes, 6.57 billion
> Kilo-Watt-Hours will be
> : saved. The fact is, unless you are cooling your home,
> there is ZERO
> : savings. Charles focused on the bulb, but forgot
> about the home. His
> : entire premise is based on a false assumption. The
> savings are grossly
> : exaggerated.
> :
> : "Wasted" energy takes the form of heat. And this heat
> helps heat your
> : house, if only just a small amount. For most of
> America, for most of
> : the year, that 45 watts will be automatically added
> back in by the
> : home heating system to maintain the same level of
> comfort. If the home
> : is heated with electricity, the savings in dollars,
> energy and carbon
> : production is literally ZERO.
> : Will someone please tell me what I've missed before
> this becomes law?
> Agreeing with you winter heated home case above the
> following remains true:
> 1) In the summer your AC will not have to work as hard
> to maintain thermostat settings by not being loaded by
> the heat difference between the compact florescent and
> an incandescent bulbs.
> 2) In places where there is no heat or air conditioning
> just a grass hut with a bulb in in ( like Fiji or New
> Orleans for instance) the more efficient CF light will
> just use a third of the electricity producing visible
> light period.
> A watt saved is a watt earned.
> Peace
> dawg