Posted by Jon Kirwan on May 21, 2009, 11:31 pm
On Thu, 21 May 2009 22:31:40 +0000 (UTC), don@manx.misty.com (Don
Klipstein) wrote:
><SNIP to this point>
>>I have spoken with a few reps from wholesalers, and even a rep from a
>>manufacturer (not quite a Big 3 but still up there in volume and
>>reputation), who don't recommend using CFLs in fixtures where the bulb is
>>oriented with the circuitry at the top, especially warning against the same
>>orientation in enclosed fixtures. The trapped heat shortens their life
>>considerably. This rules out many existing fixtures, including ceiling cans
>>and other ceiling fixtures.
>>
>>Despite all of the "spin" and indeed gov't regulation, CFLs are not ready
>>for prime time yet.
> This overheating when base-up in enclosed fixtures and downlights is a
>fairly common problem, but some CFLs are endorsed for use some of these
>"heat hellholes" (my words):
I've been told this on a number of occasions, Don. So I've actually
gone out to the usual stores (including Home Depot) and asked for help
in finding some. So far, I've scored a zero. I don't disagree with
you that some do exist. But as far as I've been able to tell (and it
may be because none of us really know what to look for and just spend
time reading labels in hopes of seeing what we need to see), the
regular (unspecified for this task) bulbs occupy the shelving that is
allotted and push anything like these off the shelves. Out here in
Oregon, anyway.
I've been keeping my eyes peeled. When I get something that makes a
promise, I'll be certain to use it in these locations and see how they
do.
Some data: The worst of my fixtures (the two that destroy CFLs the
fastest) require a specialty bulb which is the CFL but with those
triangular shaped reflector surrounding it. The ceiling fixtures are
in my living room which has a ceiling height of over 18' above the
floor. I can only reach them by using a long pole with a suction cup
used to screw them in and out. This does NOT work with the usual CFL,
for obvious reasons. These are the 65W type. The light switch is
traditional -- no dimming capability. Usage is modest. Perhaps two
or three times a day. These two fixtures kill CFLs in 4 months.
Consistently.
> Many of the major brands now have CFLs marketed specifically for use in
>ceiling fan fixtures. They are not perfect - they only come in 9 watts
>(40W incandescent equiv.) so far in my experience, and they have outer
>bulbs. CFLs with outer bulbs tend to start dimmer and take longer to warm
>up.
> The Philips SLS ("triple arch" style "Marathon") of 15-23 watts, only
>non-dimmable versions, last time I checked, were specifically rated by
>Philips to be suitable in recessed ceiling fixtures. I usually see a few
>of these in at least one wattage at Home Depot.
Well, again I'm looking. I will now look for this and see. Also,
none of what you mention fits that ceiling fixture I mentioned (I'm
guessing here.) So my circumstance (need) isn't filled yet by CFLs I
can find, for now.
Jon
Posted by GregS on May 27, 2009, 1:46 pm
wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:44:46 +0100, Eeyore wrote:
>>>> legg wrote:
>>>>> >Tim Williams wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> > That's right, buy a double pack of 11 or 20W CFLs for 48 pence and
>>>>> >> > get
>>>>> >> > two packs free at my local supermarket.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Cost per CFL = 8 pence or say 12 c US
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Do they have any electrolytics in them at all?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Matter of fact, then they might last *longer*...
>>>>> >
>>>>> >The first one that fails, I'll tell you. ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>> Why wait. It's only 8p.
>>>>
>>>> Good point.
>>>>
>>>> BTW on the subject of CFLs, I do maintenance for a local sound venue.
>>>> They have
>>>> a 'white light' in he sound booth, currently a CFL in a metal shade and
>>>> it was
>>>> bust. I went to take the bulb out and the entire glass shattered in my
>>>> hand.
>>>> Luckily it didn't cut me but one has to query the safety of these lamps.
>>>
>>>I've never had a CFL last more than a couple months.
>>
>> I've had some last years. But some just a few months, as well. What
>> seems to be a factor (I keep a log book on light replacements here) is
>> the location itself. The very worst offender locations are those
>> located in a ceiling fixture where heat can build up. The very best
>> locations appears to be those in a vertical desk lamp with a shade on
>> it, where the lamp is fixtured upright and there is a lot of air that
>> can circulate around it. Those last a pretty long time. Best is when
>> the fixture itself is part of a metal structure -- I have some old
>> lamps that used to be genuine street gas lamps (made of near pure
>> copper, by the way) which have the old stands, a long tall pole, and
>> the lamp head at the top. These have been re-purposed by the addition
>> of wiring down the long pole. The lights do well in these if I keep
>> the glass windows open (those that used to be used to light the gas
>> lamps) for circulution.
>>
>>>When they come up with a, say, 5-year full-replacement warranty, I'll
>>>think about buying one, albeit if I'm still living in my RV, I won't
>>>need any anyway, since all my lights are 12v. ;-)
>>
>> Well, there you are. You don't have a problem.
>>
>> Jon
>I have spoken with a few reps from wholesalers, and even a rep from a
>manufacturer (not quite a Big 3 but still up there in volume and
>reputation), who don't recommend using CFLs in fixtures where the bulb is
>oriented with the circuitry at the top, especially warning against the same
>orientation in enclosed fixtures. The trapped heat shortens their life
>considerably. This rules out many existing fixtures, including ceiling cans
>and other ceiling fixtures.
>Despite all of the "spin" and indeed gov't regulation, CFLs are not ready
>for prime time yet.
>Scott
I have been using them in in upside down and horzontal partially
enclosed and fully enclosed housings for years. i also have one
on all ther time in the front yard in a fully enclose bell housing.
In the sun I'm sure it gets very hot. Runs fine for at least a year
or more. i just bought two new green CFL fully enclosed ceiling
fixtures and the CFL's came with the unit. Its horzontal,
and the bastards used the twist tabs CFL which cosy about
$ at The Home Depot. Well they should last for a while
before I have to replace them.
greg
Posted by Don Klipstein on May 19, 2009, 1:19 am
<SNIP>
>I've never had a CFL last more than a couple months.
>When they come up with a, say, 5-year full-replacement warranty, I'll
>think about buying one, albeit if I'm still living in my RV, I won't
>need any anyway, since all my lights are 12v. ;-)
I use only CFLs for general home illumination. I have had very few last
less than 2 years, and most last much longer.
Some have limited warranties for 6 years or so with replacement. (You
are out the cost of shipping the failed unit. And you usually need to
include a copy of the receipt showing date of purchase and what was
purchased - even if the unit has a manufacturing date code indicating that
it failed by less than warranty period afterwards.)
In my experience, early failures mainly occur with:
* Use in small enclosed fixtures when not specifically rated for
either/both enclosed fixtures or recessed ceiling fixtures, and also
over 18 watts. Most 18 watts or less get away with this even if not rated
to do so in my experience.
* Use in recessed ceiling fixtures when not specifically rated for such,
and of wattage greater than 14 watts.
* Cheap dollar store stool specimens of "dollar store brands". My
experience with those is highly negative in many ways. I have actually
spent a total of lower-3-figures to check these out fairly thoroughly and
to be able to state that how these suck, blow and rot is actual experience
of mine (though a bit is from people I trust). I have the sordid details
in:
http://members.misty.com/don/cfdollar.html
* Ones of the "Lights of America" brand - though they may have done better
than they did in my experience after I largely stopped trying them in
2001 or so.
==================
Better: Generally, ones of "Big 3" brand (Philips, Osram/Sylvania, GE)
or ones with the Energy Star logo.
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
Posted by Don Klipstein on May 19, 2009, 2:07 am
> Some have limited warranties for 6 years or so with replacement. (You
>are out the cost of shipping the failed unit. And you usually need to
>include a copy of the receipt showing date of purchase and what was
>purchased - even if the unit has a manufacturing date code indicating that
>it failed by less than warranty period afterwards.)
Such "hoops to jump through" I merely heard about, and I do not remember
which CFL manufacturer(s) were said to impose such.
My actual experience is that I have yet to have a CFL conk out at such
time as for me to be able to purchase a replacement with a warranty.
These warranties are somewhat new.
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
Posted by Don Klipstein on May 22, 2009, 3:05 am
>> Some have limited warranties for 6 years or so with replacement. (You
>>are out the cost of shipping the failed unit. And you usually need to
>>include a copy of the receipt showing date of purchase and what was
>>purchased - even if the unit has a manufacturing date code indicating that
>>it failed by less than warranty period afterwards.)
> Such "hoops to jump through" I merely heard about, and I do not remember
>which CFL manufacturer(s) were said to impose such.
> My actual experience is that I have yet to have a CFL conk out at such
>time as for me to be able to purchase a replacement with a warranty.
>These warranties are somewhat new.
I was at a supermarket today and examined the package having a Philips
CFL with the warranty. It said that a replacement bulb would be sent upon
receipt of the returned bulb, register receipt and proof of purchase. As
best as I can remember and read the small type size. I am wondering a bit
if it said "or" rather than "and" between the last two items, since proof
of purchase separate from register receipt sounds odd to me.
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
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>>I have spoken with a few reps from wholesalers, and even a rep from a
>>manufacturer (not quite a Big 3 but still up there in volume and
>>reputation), who don't recommend using CFLs in fixtures where the bulb is
>>oriented with the circuitry at the top, especially warning against the same
>>orientation in enclosed fixtures. The trapped heat shortens their life
>>considerably. This rules out many existing fixtures, including ceiling cans
>>and other ceiling fixtures.
>>
>>Despite all of the "spin" and indeed gov't regulation, CFLs are not ready
>>for prime time yet.
> This overheating when base-up in enclosed fixtures and downlights is a
>fairly common problem, but some CFLs are endorsed for use some of these
>"heat hellholes" (my words):