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Posted by Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds on January 11, 2010, 6:01 am
 


In article
<deokk5ljvsfk63hp8dndebbqbscp85vsv0@4ax.
com>,
 wrote:


Fair enough

Posted by amdx on January 9, 2010, 1:21 am
 




Hi Curbie,
 Have you looked at Butanol? I don't know how hard it is to make,
but it has a higher energy density than ethanol.
 Here are a few links to tweak your interest.
                                              Mike
 http://www.evfind.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6&Itemid=2

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/07/boosting_biomas.html

http://agonist.org/jimbo92107/20060604/what_about_butanol









Posted by Curbie on January 9, 2010, 2:28 am
 

Mike,

How have you been, haven't seen you around in a while.

I dug up the patent and skimmed through it:
Patent 7,537,826
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=U_3GAAAAEBAJ&dq=7,537,826

I've never heard of Butanol as anything other than a fossil-fuel
derivative, but apparently it does have an organic origin.

It's also an old enough technology (WWI) that Google books may have
something on the production process, I'll check there, the old texts
can make for some DIY home-scale processes.

I suspect without really knowing that there some fly in the ointment,
because the technology has been around long enough for some chemistry
student to have revisited it, and an organic one to one gasoline
replacement is very appealing.

Thanks,

Curbie


Posted by Steve Ackman on January 12, 2010, 7:32 am
 

09:59:24 -0500, Curbie, jim.richards65@yahoo.com wrote:


  Methane?  Mobile?  That's quite a low energy
density gas.

  Henry Ford, OTOH, used to get 1000 gallons of methanol
per acre growing and converting hemp early last century,
which is why his early tractors and cars could run either.  


  How about the energy to compress methane to any kind
of reasonable energy density?


  I haven't looked at them all, but, some of these
might be of interest:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/search.aspx?search=distillation%20column
http://www.motherearthnews.com/search.aspx?search=ethanol%20still

--
☯☯


Posted by Curbie on January 12, 2010, 3:19 pm
 

Steve,

Steve,


It's better than hydrogen, in which so many are trying to use as a
mobile fuel, at least there is one carbon atom binding four hydrogen
atoms into a larger molecule. I just won't know what the problems are
not unless I look at the different concepts.


Moot, illegal crops are measured in years in prison per acre not
gallons per acre; that notion remains a political issue and not a
feedstock issue and since legal crops like switch-grass and Jerusalem
Artichokes yields are roughly the same, one that doesn't really
concern ethanol production.  


I listed that as fuel density, but you're right, that's the real
hurdle for both methane and hydrogen as a mobile fuel.


Here's the ethanol compilation written by Mother Earth News
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html

Thanks,

Curbie


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