Posted by Neo on September 10, 2009, 9:40 pm
> I was digging around on the net to find any information earth
> temperature at depth for my root cellar when I backed into this site.http://www.mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html
> I almost skipped it because of its title "Free Home Air Conditioning"
> but scanned the page (long and rambling) for any useful information
> and scam tags ("give me your money"), and found some interesting
> information and no scam tags (I think).
> The general idea is to lay out and bury a parallel set of 4" PVC-DWV
> thin-wall drain/sewer pipe (ASTM D-3034) at a depth of ~6' with an
> equal spacing of 6'. This is a closed loop system where the tubes
> slope away from the house for heat exchange on the out-bound half of
> the loop, and sloped towards the on the in-bound half of the loop. The
> idea here being the between the slope and the air flow the condensate
> will be pushed along the pipe back to a common sump at the house where
> the condensate can be pumped out of the loop to prevent bacteria
> growth.
> Each tube is said to have about 75 CFM of air flow capacity with their
> basic 9 tube system design delivers a claimed 36,000 Btu/hr
> performance at 700 CFM of air flow, if I read this properly, the claim
> is for 3 tons summer cooling and 36,000 Btu/hr for winter heat
> supplement from the same system.
> I googled "mb-soft.com/solar/saving" scam and that turned up nothing.
> Has anyone had experience with this system or has any of the math
> involved???
> I'm trying to piece together a spread-sheet from the information out
> there.
> Thanks,
> Curbie
you might want to purchase the following study
http://bse.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/1/1
Posted by harry on September 12, 2009, 5:44 pm
> > I was digging around on the net to find any information earth
> > temperature at depth for my root cellar when I backed into this
site.http://www.mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html
> > I almost skipped it because of its title "Free Home Air Conditioning"
> > but scanned the page (long and rambling) for any useful information
> > and scam tags ("give me your money"), and found some interesting
> > information and no scam tags (I think).
> > The general idea is to lay out and bury a parallel set of 4" PVC-DWV
> > thin-wall drain/sewer pipe (ASTM D-3034) at a depth of ~6' with an
> > equal spacing of 6'. This is a closed loop system where the tubes
> > slope away from the house for heat exchange on the out-bound half of
> > the loop, and sloped towards the on the in-bound half of the loop. The
> > idea here being the between the slope and the air flow the condensate
> > will be pushed along the pipe back to a common sump at the house where
> > the condensate can be pumped out of the loop to prevent bacteria
> > growth.
> > Each tube is said to have about 75 CFM of air flow capacity with their
> > basic 9 tube system design delivers a claimed 36,000 Btu/hr
> > performance at 700 CFM of air flow, if I read this properly, the claim
> > is for 3 tons summer cooling and 36,000 Btu/hr for winter heat
> > supplement from the same system.
> > I googled "mb-soft.com/solar/saving" scam and that turned up nothing.
> > Has anyone had experience with this system or has any of the math
> > involved???
> > I'm trying to piece together a spread-sheet from the information out
> > there.
> > Thanks,
> > Curbie
> you might want to purchase the following study
> http://bse.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/1/1
Is purchase the same as buy? Jeeze it's against my principles to
buy stuff :-)
Posted by Mel on September 15, 2009, 12:40 pm
Curbie a crit :
...
> I'm trying to piece together a spread-sheet from the information out
> there.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Curbie
>
>
Hi Curbie,
I've not spent a lot of time looking, buried earth pipis for winter
pre-heating or summer cooling are very much "fashionable" at the moment
over here (France). If you can wade through Google translating, try
looking up "puits canadien" and "puits provencal"
The general consensus coming from local building & design pro's these
days is that for winter pre-heating, it needs really good design and is
only worth while if it's in a very low consumption building. Summer
cooling is more interesting, but not quit as interesting as free-cooling.=
We managed to get a system monitored but we haven't been given access to =
the data... (primary school with buried earth pipes for tempering air in =
winter & summer)
Regards,
Mel
a couple of random links, not sure how good they are !
http://www.fiabitat.com/puits-canadien.php
http://www.puitscanadien.com/pages/28.php
Posted by Curbie on September 15, 2009, 5:04 pm
Hi Mel,
Heating via solar thermal panels seems to be much more cost effective
heating solution; I'm just looking at earth coupled cooling. I've be
marching through the different ideas for earth coupled cooling and I
ran into read interesting computer source code last night that seems
to have the potential to solve my thermal mass and thermal lag
questions.
I'll be translating the source code over the next few days, which for
me is a far easier translation than French to English, not to impugn
French, but I can just barely get through English and I've been at it
for over 50 years.
Thanks and good luck.
Curbie
Posted by harry on September 15, 2009, 6:24 pm
> Hi Mel,
> Heating via solar thermal panels seems to be much more cost effective
> heating solution; I'm just looking at earth coupled cooling. I've be
> marching through the different ideas for earth coupled cooling and I
> ran into read interesting computer source code last night that seems
> to have the potential to solve my thermal mass and thermal lag
> questions.
> I'll be translating the source code over the next few days, which for
> me is a far easier translation than French to English, not to impugn
> French, but I can just barely get through English and I've been at it
> for over 50 years.
> Thanks and good luck.
> Curbie
What you need to google is "ground source heating /cooling" Or
"ground source heat pump"
It's done by refrigeration type gear.
Inceasingly common in the UK. An advantage is that there's no
expensive annual maintenace as with gas fired heating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_source_heat_pumps
XML site map
> temperature at depth for my root cellar when I backed into this site.http://www.mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html
> I almost skipped it because of its title "Free Home Air Conditioning"
> but scanned the page (long and rambling) for any useful information
> and scam tags ("give me your money"), and found some interesting
> information and no scam tags (I think).
> The general idea is to lay out and bury a parallel set of 4" PVC-DWV
> thin-wall drain/sewer pipe (ASTM D-3034) at a depth of ~6' with an
> equal spacing of 6'. This is a closed loop system where the tubes
> slope away from the house for heat exchange on the out-bound half of
> the loop, and sloped towards the on the in-bound half of the loop. The
> idea here being the between the slope and the air flow the condensate
> will be pushed along the pipe back to a common sump at the house where
> the condensate can be pumped out of the loop to prevent bacteria
> growth.
> Each tube is said to have about 75 CFM of air flow capacity with their
> basic 9 tube system design delivers a claimed 36,000 Btu/hr
> performance at 700 CFM of air flow, if I read this properly, the claim
> is for 3 tons summer cooling and 36,000 Btu/hr for winter heat
> supplement from the same system.
> I googled "mb-soft.com/solar/saving" scam and that turned up nothing.
> Has anyone had experience with this system or has any of the math
> involved???
> I'm trying to piece together a spread-sheet from the information out
> there.
> Thanks,
> Curbie