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Extending life of well pump relay...?? - Page 5

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Posted by wmbjkREMOVE on February 13, 2010, 12:14 am

Used like that a 40 gallon tank wouldn't add much capacity. And
conventional tanks are a pain compared to bladder types.

80 gallons is a common size for bladder tanks. At 30/50 (cut-in and
cut-out pressure in psi) they hold about 25 gallons of water.

Have you verified proper pre-charge in your existing tank?


Posted by sno on February 13, 2010, 12:51 am

On 2/12/2010 7:14 PM, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:


yep....have verified present tank is ok...and at proper pressure...
the 40 gallon tank would be used along with the bladder tank....
even if I had to drain the 40 gallon every two months or so would be a
great help....and during summer could have a valve to cut it out of the
system...maybe would be able to get by draining it right before winter
and right after....I am hoping by adding snubber will solve my problem..
I have the components on order and it will cost less than 10 dollars...
will update how things work....when I get done....<grin>

thanks for info on non bladder tanks....have fun...sno

Correct Scientific Terminology:
Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs
Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
  to be generally assumed to be true.
Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments
  in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.
Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.

Posted by vaughn on February 13, 2010, 12:32 pm

   Perhaps, but that is all I ever had on my last home's system and I got along
just fine.  It works best if you own an air compressor.  Just at a Schrader
valve somewhere on the tank and blow in the occasional tank full of air.


Posted by wmbjkREMOVE on February 13, 2010, 2:39 pm

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:32:27 -0500, "vaughn"

Sure, lots of people do well with pressure tanks that size. Usually
the ones using sensible amounts of water. The problem arises when
you're using more, say running multiple outlets at once. Then you get
rapid cycling. Wait, what were we talking about again? ;-)  Anyway,
considering the trouble people manage to get into with bladder tanks,
I never mention conventionals except to DIYers. They're still popular
though in some large installations in my area. One I remember was
perhaps 2000 gallons, and had a small auto-start compressor installed.
That kind of thing, and pressure tanks in general, are headed towards
extinction though as constant-pressure pumps become more popular. Some
types of those are already cost-effective, like this one
that I used to replace a multi-tank conventional setup. Available in
lower capacities also. For lift apps, these are neat, albeit
expensive. http://www.deanbennett.com/artesian-vfd-drives.htm . Still,
when you consider that they can sometimes be used to eliminate one
pump, a storage tank, pressure tank(s), controls, and motor protection
devices, they're pretty slick.


Posted by ghio on February 13, 2010, 1:30 am

First off, a look at problem solving;

When things go wrong they seem to do so with a twisted sort of
vengeance. Problem piled on mistake compounded by silliness raised to
catastrophe may sound familiar to many of us.
So how do these things happen? Well, in many cases we do them to
ourselves. It has to do with mind set and reaction. We see a problem
react to it.
As an example let's look at a problem that arose just this weekend. I
been to Bill's to install a new battery charger for his solar power
system. To
set the scene this system was installed by the previous owner. Bill
the house and the system connected to it. Now, while the previous
knew what he had done he never documented it.
During the installation of a new battery charger I had to disconnect
alternator, which had been the battery charger up to this point. To
this long story short, by disconnecting the alternator I had also
disabled the starting circuit for the diesel generator.
That night I got a call to say that the generator would not start.
okay, this was my fault. I went right then to  fix this problem. Yes,
this is
the Problem which is piled on the Mistake.
Right. Problem solved and the generator is running again. The new
battery charger is working great and pumping fifty amps into the
At this point there are some who will have noticed that the equation
"Problem piled on mistake compounded by silliness raised to
catastrophe" is
not finished.
Late the next day I get a phone call to say that Bill's twelve volt
fridge has
ceased to function and has defrosted itself. I suggested that the
first thing
to check was that there was power to the socket that the fridge is
into. Answer is - No, but when the fridge is plugged into another
socket on
the other side it works.
Later that same day I get a phone call. The twelve volt lights in the
lounge room do not work. As you can see the equation is still running.
I go over the possible problems with Bill, check the fuses, check for
at the fuse box and so forth. The upshot is that the fuses are ok but
is no power to the lighting circuit. You have got to understand. This
is not
right. In fact it is just plain silly. It's the sort of thing that can
reduce a
grown man to a gibbering fool in a very short space of time. What we
talking about is "Wandering circuit failure".
Well we now have the full equation. Problem (generator does not start)
piled on mistake (generator starter disconnected) compounded by
(we will get to this in a moment) raised to catastrophe (fridge full
of food
Evening day three. I get a phone call from Bill. Everything is all
Silliness, it seems that Bill has had guests over for the weekend. At
time during the weekend someone turned off the master switch for the
in the lounge room. Which, would you believe it, includes the circuit
for the
Now I am not poking fun at Bill. The point I am making is that when
you start looking for solutions to problems, such as lights or other
failing to work or in fact any other problem, always start with the
solution. i.e. Turn on the switch. I know it sounds stupid but we all
do it.
A problem comes up and we forget the simple solutions. Maybe it is the
that the growth of technology has led us to be too technical in our
search for
the answers to problems. Like the song says `Slow down, you move too
you've got to make the morning last.'
Don't jump to conclusions. Walk through the problem from the beginning
to the end. If a light fails to work, check the light first, then the
socket, then
the wire, then the switch. . . etc.
Now if I could just remember this advice I would be a much calmer

Ok, your problem of short lived relay contacts.

It would seem, on quiet reflection, that you are trying to fix a
symptom rather than the cause.

From what you have said, with all the taps turned off, your pump
cycles every 90 seconds.

Possible causes:

1) Leak in water system. In a frost prone are this is a common problem
due to thermal cycling of joints.

2) Flooded pressure tank. This is also a common problem, which is why
many pressure tanks have a recharge port on them.

3) Both of the above.

Explanation; System is water pump and pressure tank. If water system
leaks then the pump will cycle whenever the pressure drops below the
preset low pressure point. In the case of a flooded pressure tank
there is not enough compressed gas to maintain pressure above the
preset low pressure point.

Either or both of these two problems can and will cause excessive

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