Posted by BobG on October 21, 2007, 11:40 am
Are electric vehicles barred from your comparison? When your criteion
is '$ saved per year' we need a reference. Lets have 4 categories...
above and below $25,000 price, above and below 12,000 miles a year,
and we'll figure total cost to own for 5 years, average cost per year,
and $ per mile. We already know its about $5,000 a year to own a gas
car and insurance companies say about $.50 a mile, so anythin less
than that avg is a saving to me. I think a small electric car will win
over 5 year avg because its less KW-hr per mile, even though
electricity cost more per KW-hr than gasoline.
Posted by Vaughn Simon on October 21, 2007, 1:33 pm
>> Remember, I am not knocking hybrids, but lets keep the discussion real.
> Looks like you might be knocking hybrids.
Then you didn't bother to read what I wrote.
>You are assuming that an
> automatic transmission will last the life of a vehicle
Thanks for bringing that up. In the 70's and 80's you could expect to
rebuild an automatic transmission at least once in the lifetime of a vehicle.
Today that is not true. Why? Because of several generations of evolutionary
improvement in the design of automatic transmissions. New systems do not have
the full benefit of this evolution because there is no way that a manufacturer
can have millions of miles of experience with a new design before it hits the
showroom floor.
>and then assuming that motors and controllers that have been shown to do so
won't.
They have not been so shown.
> It looks like the batteries will end up lasting the life of the vehicle as
> well, most of the time.
I work with NIMH batteries every day and I can tell you confidently that is
absolute bullshit. Manufacturers have extended the lifetime of the batteries by
only using a fraction of their capacity, but they will not last forever and
their warranties (good as they are) will not last forever.
Again, (please read closely) I am not knocking hybrids. In fact, my next
car may well be one. You are not doing anyone any good by generating lore about
these vehicles. Folks should buy them with their eyes wide open, and buy them
for the correct reasons.
Vaughn
Posted by Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG on October 21, 2007, 4:46 pm
hillco@earthlink.net says...
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:42:15 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
>
> >
> >> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:51:35 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
> >> May not be any expected aditional maintenance. The battery may wear
> >> out eventually, but on the Prius, anyway, the transmission is so much
> >> less complex than a regular automatic that the whole thing is likely a
> >> wash.
> >
> > Sorry, but that is just wishful thinking. Conventional or hybrid,
> >transmissions these days should be assumed to normally last the lifetime of
the
> >vehicle, so the elegant design of the Prius transmission is a wash.
> >
> > There is a good warranty on the Prius battery, but non-warranty
replacements
> >are certainly in the future is the car lasts long enough to pay for itself.
> >Additionally, any hybrid has expensive parts (motors, controlllers etc.) that
> >just are not required in a conventional vehicle. So far, few of those parts
are
> >generic enough to be second-sourced, so replacement will be very expensive.
> >
> > Remember, I am not knocking hybrids, but lets keep the discussion real.
> Looks like you might be knocking hybrids. You are assuming that an
> automatic transmission will last the life of a vehicle and then
> assuming that motors and controllers that have been shown to do so
> won't. It looks like the batteries will end up lasting the life of
> the vehicle as well, most of the time.
Yeah-but, the Prius hasn't been manufactured for very many years
yet. The earliest ones aren't yet near a reasonable end of life
span point. So, nobody can be sure what parts will or won't last
until the whole car is ready to be scrapped. Or what the total
life span maintainance and repair costs really will be.
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Posted by Jim on October 21, 2007, 5:44 pm
> Yeah-but, the Prius hasn't been manufactured for very many years
> yet. The earliest ones aren't yet near a reasonable end of life
> span point. So, nobody can be sure what parts will or won't last
> until the whole car is ready to be scrapped. Or what the total
> life span maintainance and repair costs really will be.
Yes, every vehicle has weak points, some obvious, inexpensive and
quickly rectified. Others are deep and take a looooong time to figure out
and mucho dinero to fix. I worked in various auto dealerships for years and
it is a constant; every vehicle has a weak point somewhere....
> --
> Earn Money With Your Web Site
> http://www.WebSponsorZone.Net
> Web Site Advertising Directory
Posted by Balanced View on October 21, 2007, 11:31 pm
Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote:
> hillco@earthlink.net says...
>
>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:42:15 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:51:35 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
>>>> May not be any expected aditional maintenance. The battery may wear
>>>> out eventually, but on the Prius, anyway, the transmission is so much
>>>> less complex than a regular automatic that the whole thing is likely a
>>>> wash.
>>>>
>>> Sorry, but that is just wishful thinking. Conventional or hybrid,
>>> transmissions these days should be assumed to normally last the lifetime of
the
>>> vehicle, so the elegant design of the Prius transmission is a wash.
>>>
>>> There is a good warranty on the Prius battery, but non-warranty
replacements
>>> are certainly in the future is the car lasts long enough to pay for itself.
>>> Additionally, any hybrid has expensive parts (motors, controlllers etc.)
that
>>> just are not required in a conventional vehicle. So far, few of those parts
are
>>> generic enough to be second-sourced, so replacement will be very expensive.
>>>
>>> Remember, I am not knocking hybrids, but lets keep the discussion real.
>>>
>
>> Looks like you might be knocking hybrids. You are assuming that an
>> automatic transmission will last the life of a vehicle and then
>> assuming that motors and controllers that have been shown to do so
>> won't. It looks like the batteries will end up lasting the life of
>> the vehicle as well, most of the time.
>>
> Yeah-but, the Prius hasn't been manufactured for very many years
> yet. The earliest ones aren't yet near a reasonable end of life
> span point. So, nobody can be sure what parts will or won't last
> until the whole car is ready to be scrapped. Or what the total
> life span maintainance and repair costs really will be.
>
How do you figure that? The Prius has been in production since 1997. 10
years is a lot longer than
most people keep a car.
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> Looks like you might be knocking hybrids.