Posted by amdx on June 3, 2010, 12:27 pm
> Do you have natural gas available?
> If not, consider propane. Make gasoline your last option, (though
> tri-fuel keeps all of your options alive). The biggest problem with
> seldom used gasoline engines is the gasoline turning to jelly in the carb.
> Also, you can only store gasoline for about a year. After a hurricane,
> gasoline is very difficult to buy. Nothing is more useless than a
> generator without fuel. Propane gas stores forever, and does not degrade
> your carb. Some generators make less power on gaseous fuel, so plan a bit
> of extra capacity and/or pay attention to the specifications of what you
> are buying..
> I have my generator connected to my natural gas system. There is a small
> chance that natural gas will not be available after a hurricane, so I keep
> enough propane to last us a few days.
> You will get all different opinions about what generator to buy. Unless
> you are very handy, the quality of your local dealers will be part of the
> equation. Others may say different, but avoid the lower end of the Generac
> line like the plague.
> Vaughn
You have me convinced that gas is a poorer option, I don't have
natural gas available, I'll look into the propane.
I'm handy enough, ( the problem is wanting be :-). That's what I did
the first time, hurricane a day away, $13,000 of product in freezers,
better get a generator. We never lost power. I couldn't do what
many, many people down here do, The return their generators
back where they bought them after the threat is gone. Although
now that I think about it, I should have, I only got 4 hrs use
before it failed. I guess I got burned.
Thanks, Mike
Posted by amdx on June 3, 2010, 12:35 pm
> I live in Florida and have a (home) business with many chest freezers.
> I'm going to purchase a generator for hurricane season.
> I did have a 5000 watt generator. I stored it for three years until I
> needed it.
> A power company transformer failed and I didn't have power.
> So I pulled out the generator and connected it to my freezers.
> It worked great for about 4 hrs and it died, the field coil burned up.
> This time I'll spend the money and do it right.
> I want one big enough so I can run the whole house, at reduced demand,
> but the freezers are the big concern.
> So, (off the top of my head) I'm looking at 12000 to 18000 watt.
> Need recomendations for a care free generator that will (hopefully) get
> very little use, but must work 5yrs or 10 years from now.
> Mike
> PS. I know when I get to powering the house I'll need
> a tranfer box.
Minimal research so far but, does diesel fuel store well?
Email sent to NL about propane, no propane info on site.
Thanks, Mike
Posted by vaughn on June 3, 2010, 12:50 pm
> Minimal research so far but, does diesel fuel store well?
On the search term "Diesel fuel storage" I get 33 million Google hits. Happy
reading! The short version is that bugs can grow in diesel. You might be able
to store the suff for decades without the slightest issue, or you could buy some
already infected stuff and have a mess within months. As always, there are
folks who are happy to sell you addiitves... I have been told that clean diesel
stored in airtight drums lasts forever, but have never tried it. Where I (used
to) work, we ended up having a vender with a special truck suck all the fuel out
of our diesel generator tanks, treat it, filter it, and then return it.
> Email sent to NL about propane, no propane info on site.
Usually diesels only take liquid fuel. Injectors don't work too well on gasious
fuel.
Vaughn
Posted by You on June 4, 2010, 3:09 pm
> You can, if you're feeling brave, add some propane to the air intake
> stream, which should - in theory - reduce the amount of diesel used (the
> engine's governer will take care of it), but it's not an exact science,
> and would very likely void the engine manufacturer's warranty...
>
> You can't remove the diesel entirely, since you need something to ignite
> the propane - compression alone won't do it.
Good way to blow up a perfectly good diesel engine.... Just look at what
the cause was of the Gulf Oil Spill on the Drilling Vessel. They had a
High Pressure (20K PSI) Natural Gas Blowout. That could have been
contained, except for, all that NG spread over then ship, and then got
into the Air Intakes for the BIG Diesel Gensets, that supplied ALL the
power for the ship, disaster, and Fire Pumps, and the Ship and Drill
Rigs Control and Computer Systems. The Gensets engines Ran Away, due to
over-fueled condition and destroyed themselves, and in that process they
blew every light bulb and motor on the Ship. When the Lights around the
Drill Rig exploded, it lit off the NG, causing the fire, and with no
Power to run ANYTHING onboard, there wasn't a thing that the crew could
do, but get off. The fire, ultimately, sank the ship, which caused the
Pipe to break off, and with no control over the BlowOUT Preventer, and
all that pressure coming up, the then, broken pipe, lots of Petroleum
products went into the water, and still is....
Posted by daestrom on June 4, 2010, 9:39 pm
You wrote:
>
>> You can, if you're feeling brave, add some propane to the air intake
>> stream, which should - in theory - reduce the amount of diesel used (the
>> engine's governer will take care of it), but it's not an exact science,
>> and would very likely void the engine manufacturer's warranty...
>>
>> You can't remove the diesel entirely, since you need something to ignite
>> the propane - compression alone won't do it.
>
> Good way to blow up a perfectly good diesel engine.... Just look at what
> the cause was of the Gulf Oil Spill on the Drilling Vessel. They had a
> High Pressure (20K PSI) Natural Gas Blowout. That could have been
> contained, except for, all that NG spread over then ship, and then got
> into the Air Intakes for the BIG Diesel Gensets, that supplied ALL the
> power for the ship, disaster, and Fire Pumps, and the Ship and Drill
> Rigs Control and Computer Systems. The Gensets engines Ran Away, due to
> over-fueled condition and destroyed themselves, and in that process they
> blew every light bulb and motor on the Ship. When the Lights around the
> Drill Rig exploded, it lit off the NG, causing the fire, and with no
> Power to run ANYTHING onboard, there wasn't a thing that the crew could
> do, but get off. The fire, ultimately, sank the ship, which caused the
> Pipe to break off, and with no control over the BlowOUT Preventer, and
> all that pressure coming up, the then, broken pipe, lots of Petroleum
> products went into the water, and still is....
Reads like a lot of wild speculation. Engines trip on overspeed long
before they tear themselves apart. That shuts off all the fuel. Many
such large engines also have air intake shut offs that trip shut to
prevent run-away on lubricating oil, so they would also shutdown on NG
at the intake. Such trips are designed to prevent the engine from
'tearing itself apart'.
Replace all the fuel oil supplying an engine (by tripping the fuel
racks) with a very improbable 'perfect mix' of NG and air and you get
less power, not more.
In order to 'destroy' all the motors on the rig, you would have to
provide voltages several times their rating. Even a run-away engine
can't do that generator regulators are better than that. At most you
might get 120-140% of rated voltage.
In real life when you apply overvoltage to an incandescent light it
doesn't explode in a shower of sparks like the movies, it just gets
brighter, flashes and goes out.
Much more likely the gas explosion is what stopped the engines. The
reports of survivors was that they felt/heard the explosion and that's
when the lights went out. No one reported lights blowing out before the
explosion.
There have been several insights into the failure of the blowout
preventer, none of which hinge on your 'loss of power' statements. The
wrong diagrams and some change that caused the test ram to activate
instead of the correct one.
Where did you get this 'scenario'? Sounds like you just made it up.
daestrom
> If not, consider propane. Make gasoline your last option, (though
> tri-fuel keeps all of your options alive). The biggest problem with
> seldom used gasoline engines is the gasoline turning to jelly in the carb.
> Also, you can only store gasoline for about a year. After a hurricane,
> gasoline is very difficult to buy. Nothing is more useless than a
> generator without fuel. Propane gas stores forever, and does not degrade
> your carb. Some generators make less power on gaseous fuel, so plan a bit
> of extra capacity and/or pay attention to the specifications of what you
> are buying..
> I have my generator connected to my natural gas system. There is a small
> chance that natural gas will not be available after a hurricane, so I keep
> enough propane to last us a few days.
> You will get all different opinions about what generator to buy. Unless
> you are very handy, the quality of your local dealers will be part of the
> equation. Others may say different, but avoid the lower end of the Generac
> line like the plague.
> Vaughn