Posted by (PeteCresswell) on June 6, 2010, 1:16 pm
Per amdx:
> You might find this very interesting, It's the story from the chief
>electronics
>technician who was on the rig when it caught fire.
>http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?idd90509n&tag=contentMain;contentBody
Seems like the technology is exonerated.
But it sounds bad for Deepwater Horizon and BP management.
--
PeteCresswell
Posted by John B. Slocomb on June 5, 2010, 1:13 am
On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:44:56 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
>> Hey z,
>> I don't feel the same about BP, if we didn't use oil they would drill for
oil.
>> I think the environmentalists and nimby's are more to blame for pushing
>> the drilling out into 5000 ft of water. BP would much rather drill on land or
in 200 ft
>> of water than where they were forced to be. It safer and much cheaper and
blowout
>> could be stopped in days not weeks or months.
>> BP employs 100's of thousands of people, there were maybe three or four
people
>> who made desisions that 99% of the time would have never come to be known,
>> but this time they all came together and we have an accident. Yes a big
>> accident?!
>Actually the cause hasn't been determined, but all of the initial reports are
>pointing to negligence and of course greed (by this, I mean the intentional and
>possibly systemic failure to follow the proper protocols)
Frankly I doubt what you say, if for no other reason then that the
guys most intimately involved, the drillers and the floor crew are all
well aware of what will likely happen to them in the event of a blow
out. And it did.
Another point is that before drilling in U.S. waters there a lot of
regulations that must be complied with: Here is a part of a e-mail I
received from a friend who is a Rig Supervisor (company man) in the
off shore drilling business:
quote:
Any oil company operating in the USA deals with governmental
regulations, similar to Indonesia but much more strict. They have to
be a bona fide company to acquire a lease to explore on. PT
Holeinthewall would definitely get turned down. Then before they
drill, they have to submit their plans to a government body called MMS
(Mineral Management Service). It used to be the USGS (United States
Geological Service) but MMS was created about 1982, when I was in the
US taking some seminars in Texas and Louisiana. Although they have a
lot of dead beats working for them, much like any government
department, that drilling program is well screened and scrutinized
before an oil company can start drilling. Any changes to that drilling
program have to be approved first. During the drilling, MMS does
'surprise' helicopter trips to rigs to check to see if the required
casing, BOP, drilling equipment has been tested before it's tested
expiry dates. They are serious! I did a well control school in
Lafayette and a lot of the questions on the exam pertained to US rules
and regulations. Didn't mean anything to me because I was never going
to work in the USA, but I had to memorize them to pass.
Unquote:
You will notice that there has been no mention of the MMS in the
president's news announcements.
This is not to say that there were no mistakes but I doubt that it was
the drilling crew that deliberately made them and the government was
responsible for oversight, and likely did carry out the inspections
that were required.
John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)
Posted by amdx on June 9, 2010, 3:00 pm
> On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:44:56 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
>>
>>
>>> Hey z,
>>> I don't feel the same about BP, if we didn't use oil they would drill
>>> for oil.
>>> I think the environmentalists and nimby's are more to blame for
>>> pushing
>>> the drilling out into 5000 ft of water. BP would much rather drill on
>>> land or in 200 ft
>>> of water than where they were forced to be. It safer and much cheaper
>>> and blowout
>>> could be stopped in days not weeks or months.
>>> BP employs 100's of thousands of people, there were maybe three or
>>> four people
>>> who made desisions that 99% of the time would have never come to be
>>> known,
>>> but this time they all came together and we have an accident. Yes a big
>>> accident?!
>>
>>Actually the cause hasn't been determined, but all of the initial reports
>>are
>>pointing to negligence and of course greed (by this, I mean the
>>intentional and
>>possibly systemic failure to follow the proper protocols)
>>
>>
> Frankly I doubt what you say, if for no other reason then that the
> guys most intimately involved, the drillers and the floor crew are all
> well aware of what will likely happen to them in the event of a blow
> out. And it did.
> Another point is that before drilling in U.S. waters there a lot of
> regulations that must be complied with: Here is a part of a e-mail I
> received from a friend who is a Rig Supervisor (company man) in the
> off shore drilling business:
> quote:
> Any oil company operating in the USA deals with governmental
> regulations, similar to Indonesia but much more strict. They have to
> be a bona fide company to acquire a lease to explore on. PT
> Holeinthewall would definitely get turned down. Then before they
> drill, they have to submit their plans to a government body called MMS
> (Mineral Management Service). It used to be the USGS (United States
> Geological Service) but MMS was created about 1982, when I was in the
> US taking some seminars in Texas and Louisiana. Although they have a
> lot of dead beats working for them, much like any government
> department, that drilling program is well screened and scrutinized
> before an oil company can start drilling. Any changes to that drilling
> program have to be approved first. During the drilling, MMS does
> 'surprise' helicopter trips to rigs to check to see if the required
> casing, BOP, drilling equipment has been tested before it's tested
> expiry dates. They are serious! I did a well control school in
> Lafayette and a lot of the questions on the exam pertained to US rules
> and regulations. Didn't mean anything to me because I was never going
> to work in the USA, but I had to memorize them to pass.
> Unquote:
> You will notice that there has been no mention of the MMS in the
> president's news announcements.
> This is not to say that there were no mistakes but I doubt that it was
> the drilling crew that deliberately made them and the government was
> responsible for oversight, and likely did carry out the inspections
> that were required.
> John B. Slocomb
> (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)
The president has backed up what I have been saying for three weeks.
BP does not want to drill 50 miles off shore in 5000 ft of water!
It is very expensive to get that oil, they would much rather drill for
cheaper oil on land or in shallow water. The environmentalist and nimbys
have forced the deep water drilling. Here's what the president had to say
in the June 8 interview with Matt Lauer,
PRESIDENT OBAMA: -- on new drilling. The production wells that are already
pumping oil, those don't seem to be the problem. The problem has to do with
actually drilling and starting a new well. So we've put a moratorium on new
wells. Shallow wells aren't a problem because the risers essentially come up
above the water. So if something like this happened in a shallow-water well,
then folks would just get up on the platform and they would start fixing it
and it would be shut down fairly quickly.
What we don't have right now is an assurance that in these incredible
depths, a mile down, and then they're drilling another three miles down to
get to oil --
Is this some common sense creeping into the administration?
Mike
Posted by z on June 10, 2010, 6:17 pm
d9606e8bc647@18g2000vbi.googlegroups.com:
>> ...
>> But it'll never happen -- Boat captains are way too head strong to get
>> organized....
>
> I read something like that about their behavior in WW2 convoys. Even
> the threat of subs wasn't enough to make all of them follow orders on
> speed and separation. The Germans considered their lookouts a bad joke
> and surfaced right in the middle of convoys at night, since they
> couldn't keep up underwater.
>
I'm not surprised. A boat captain is like a dictator -- some are good
and run a smooth country. Others not so much, but in either case they
are always right and none of them like taking orders from anyone else :)
Our Capt is great -- he always finds the fish and keeps everyone safe so
we got a good one. I suspect he's the sort who'd listen to the Navy if
they told him to stay in line while under the threat of German subs.
-z
> jsw
>
Posted by vaughn on June 11, 2010, 1:20 pm
> When they are done, you see half the apples on the ground and the
> adjacent rows of Strawberry bushes have been all ruined by the ladders
> and workers stepping on them. The contract proved meaningless.
> If your feelings are correct, then the whole mess is YOUR fault, because
> you like apples.
> What were you thinking when you developed a taste for apples? Obviously
> not much. Next time, act more responsibly.
Fun discussion, but a terrible example. In that case, the "apple lover"/ grove
owner clearly failed in his duty to check on the performance of the crew he
hired. He certainly shares in the blame.
All of our decisions have "externalities" connected to them. Like it of not,
when we choose to burn more fuel, we are choosing to help pollute our world just
a bit more, are choosing to increase the trade deficit, choosing to increase the
power of some folks who really don't like us, and even choosing to do some good
things like employing folks in the oil industry who might not otherwise have a
job.
We share some of the blame for creating the economic environment that led to the
Gulf disaster.
Vaughn
XML site map
>electronics
>technician who was on the rig when it caught fire.
>http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?idd90509n&tag=contentMain;contentBody