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Posted by vaughn on June 4, 2010, 7:55 pm

I am one of those retired local government workers you are talking about.  My
retirement was financed both by taking money from my pay, and by direct
contribution from the city budget; BUT WHO CARES?.  If you stop to think about
it, it really makes NO DIFFERENCE if they go through the accounting excercise of
putting the money in my pay account and then taking it out to finance the
pension, or just putting that same money straight into the pension plan.  Either
way, IT IS THE SAME MONEY, and it is/was part of my compensation.  I spent 38
years working for the taxpayers at less than the going market pay.   Part of the
deal that kept me there was the promise of a modestly secure retirement.  Unlike
many governments, my pension was fully funded and "in the bank" the day I
retired.  The city's only future expense is if the pension fund's investments
happen to go bad.

I am shocked that some governments do not fully fund their pensions, leaving the
debt for future generations to pay, but let's not blame the workers for that!
Put the blame where it belongs, on the way us voters allow our local governments
to be mismanaged, and on our constant demand for for the impossible combination
of lower taxes (now!) combined with higher services (now!) and damn the future!


Posted by amdx on June 5, 2010, 2:44 am

  No, if the money was not put in by you or the taxpayer during the years
were working it is not the same! The government is taking todays dollars to
pay retires. ( in some locals)

  Oh, that's my beef.

  The same goes for social security, Many, many retires collect 3, 4, 5 and
more times money than they ever paid in,
 When social security started the average life span was 63 and benifits
ar 65, that systen worked, now we live till 75. The system no longer works.
Also many retires paid only 3.25% of their wages when they started, today
it's double at 6.2%. I'm self employed and pay 12.4% +  2.9% medicare. 15.3%
my money goes into the system to pay those that didn't pay enough to cover
their retirement. My money is not being saved for my retirement. I can't
imagine my children paying double what workers pay to day when they
are nearing retirement tp cover me. That would be 12.4% with their employer
paying the other 12.4%.  If  they're self employed that would
be 24.8% + medicare of 5 8% for a total of 30.6%. The system is
broke and a some point it will collapse. Oh and don't forget regular
 income taxes on top of that .Government needs to let the people
take care of themselves.


Government is out of control!!


Posted by vaughn on June 5, 2010, 11:49 am

   Yes, but that has to do with *How Well* pensions are funded, not where the
actual dollars come from to do the funding.  It really makes no difference if
you first hand the money to the employee and then take it back!  I agree,
pensions should be funded from TODAY's budget, not left for future generations
to pay.

Yes, but others die before they collect a dime.  Properly designed, everything
is supposed to average out and the system is supposed to work.

I don't disagree, but the discussion was about local government pension systems.

How far are you willing to go with that concept?  Are you willing to see
retirees starving in the streets?

We get the government we deserve.  Ultimately, it is up to the voters, but
voters do not tend tp be long-term thinkers, so the politicians do what gets
them elected and keeps them in office.  So we end up with the government we

Did I remember to mention; we get the government we deserve?


Posted by amdx on June 5, 2010, 4:44 pm

  No but how many people were staring in the 50s, we had a lot less taxes
  Also if the government gets out of the way we have organizations that will
help the poor.
We would have more of these if the government didn't interfere, and they are
closer to
the situation, not just the government give your and my money to people who
don't deserve it.

    Vauhn, I'm working hard to change what we have now. The leadership is
going down the road of European socialism. This is America, we are
we believe the people give government power, not the reverse.
Our forefathers devised a great plan along with capitalism, that created
great wealth, the poor in America have cellphones and cable tv and drive
the kids have video games and two tvs..
The poor in many countries have mud huts and lack of food.
 Makes it difficult for me to feel sorry for poor Americans.
There is so much opportunity here that we can't keep people out!!!!
 I'm married into a legal immigrant family. They came hear with nothing,
very little english, but here because there is oppurtunity. They have worked
hard for 30 yrs. My wifes brother and sister are millionares, another one
brother and
sister are doing good but don't have a million. Now their children 3
at over $00,000 a year, one  $75,000. One child is chemical engineer,
Don't know exactly but he just got a raise of $5,000, ya that's the raise
He's well over $00,000 a year. There's more to tell but you get the point,
education was the key to all of the children. Hard work and many hours for
the parents.
  I'm a bit jealous, but they deserve all they have because they worked and
earned it.
The freedom we have is slowly being taken away. Help save America.

If you want to worry about the poor, poor health is a reason to be poor,
My father had a bad heart attack at 43, It was tough and he had help,
but a healthy person can work and not be poor.

I see many people who would rather get a government check than work.
If they are healthy, they should  be forced to work, at least to get the
check there
should be large room where they go 5 days a week for 8 hrs and sit. Then on
Friday, if they made all 40 hours they get there check. I bet welfare rolls
drop quickly. Another thing, unemployment, when the max benefit is six
amazing how jobs are found in the 5th month, when benefits are lengthened to
1 yr, jobs are found in the 11th month.
 I know, it's human nature, government needs to be aware and design programs
that bring out the best in humans, not the worst.
 End of rant for now, I have work to do, did I mention we are open 10 hrs, 7
363 days a year. Well ya gotta rest sometimes. Thanksgiving and Christmas.


Posted by vaughn on June 5, 2010, 8:20 pm

How so?  If it your suggested "change" is to express your anger by simply
ousting one politician in favor of another one, all we will end up with is more
of what we have.  -
To bring about change, you need more than anger, you need a plan.

Let's go back to Social security for a moment, becaus that seems to be one of
the things that bothers you.  All you need to do fix it is to either increase SS
taxes or reduce benefits.  (good luck on getting somebody to run on THAT
platform!)  The most painless way to bring the system into balance is to do more
of what Clinton did; delay benefits by raising the "normal retirement age" to
recognize the simple fact that we are living longer and most of us can work can
work longer than our parents did.

Even though I am near Social Security age, I would support a ystem that ties the
SS retirement age to real actuarial data by some formula that would gradually
put the system on more solid financial gronds and take the decisions away from
politicians much the way the SS COLA is done today .

Further, your anger seems to be fixated on the current administration, but let
me remind you that it was the previous ones who got us here.  For example, it
was the GWB administration that increased Medicare benefits without increasing
revenues, thus putting the system that many more years closer to bankruptcy.



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