Posted by amdx on June 6, 2010, 6:46 am
>>
>> Vauhn, I'm working hard to change what we have now.
> How so? If it your suggested "change" is to express your anger by simply
> ousting one politician in favor of another one, all we will end up with is
> more of what we have. -
> To bring about change, you need more than anger, you need a plan.
> Let's go back to Social security for a moment, becaus that seems to be one
> of the things that bothers you. All you need to do fix it is to either
> increase SS taxes or reduce benefits. (good luck on getting somebody to
> run on THAT platform!) The most painless way to bring the system into
> balance is to do more of what Clinton did; delay benefits by raising the
> "normal retirement age" to recognize the simple fact that we are living
> longer and most of us can work can work longer than our parents did.
> Even though I am near Social Security age, I would support a ystem that
> ties the SS retirement age to real actuarial data by some formula that
> would gradually put the system on more solid financial gronds and take the
> decisions away from politicians much the way the SS COLA is done today .
> Further, your anger seems to be fixated on the current administration, but
> let me remind you that it was the previous ones who got us here. For
> example, it was the GWB administration that increased Medicare benefits
> without increasing revenues, thus putting the system that many more years
> closer to bankruptcy.
> Vaughn
Hi Vaughn,
I'm interested in this interchange and will get back to it.
Our business is busy on weekends, plus the oil has finally
hit home. The charter boats will be stopped on Monday.
The price of shrimp is up $0.65 to $0.90 today, I don't know
what it will be when the next boat comes in about a week
from now. It won't be much longer and the shrimp boats will be
stopped. We have had BP here for two weeks training captains
and crew how to cleanup oil, put out booms, safety and I
don't know what else.
Here's a pdf map of the closed area.
http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/sf/deepwater_horizon/BP_OilSpill_FisheryClosureMap_060510.pdf
I'm at Panama City. 30*N @ state/Fed water line.
It will be an exciting year!!
If you send me an email I'll send some fishing / shrimping stuff you might
find interesting.
I haven't been able to shut my mind off tonight, didn't get any sleep, it
going to be along day.
I'll be ordering the Honda later this week, we will need it with all our
freezers full of shrimp,
it's cheap insurance.
Mike
Posted by amdx on June 8, 2010, 10:44 am
>>
>> Vauhn, I'm working hard to change what we have now.
> How so? If it your suggested "change" is to express your anger by simply
> ousting one politician in favor of another one, all we will end up with is
> more of what we have. -
> To bring about change, you need more than anger, you need a plan.
I'm back with a little time, This oil spill is wreaking havoc on life and
business.
But a little slower now.
I don't disagree with that. (you need a plan)
It is only since we have had such an attack on the American way
of life, the freedoms we have, and capitalism that I'm have great concern.
I believe people should have the right to succeed or fail without undo
influence of government. Although I do know, the importance of law
to allow businesses to have a framework of rules to work with each other,
(contract law)
I think the Tea party has the right ideas about small government, less
taxes, and pro growth. I have attended several Tea Parties and recruit
on anyone I can to come and see what we are about. The Tea Party is
fighting a war of ideas, our president has the wrong ideas for America.
The democrats want to say we are racist, it is ideas, not color. They are
losing when that is all they have as ammunition.
Add to that, this is the first year I have ever sent political donations to
candidates, my money is hard earned and harder saved, so I want to make
my donations count. Trying to pick candidates that are close in the poles
but need help. If they are to far behind I don't want my donation to be
wasted, so far aaa, not so good, about 50%. :-(
I did this in word and can't seem to fix the spacing, sorry.
> Let's go back to Social security for a moment, becaus that seems to be one
> of the things that bothers you. All you need to do fix it is to either
> increase SS taxes or reduce benefits. (good luck on getting somebody to
> run on THAT platform!) The most painless way to bring the system into
> balance is to do more of what Clinton did; delay benefits by raising the
> "normal retirement age" to recognize the simple fact that we are living
> longer and most of us can work can work longer than our parents did.
> Even though I am near Social Security age, I would support a ystem that
> ties the SS retirement age to real actuarial data by some formula that
> would gradually put the system on more solid financial gronds and take the
> decisions away from politicians much the way the SS COLA is done today .
I see maybe five fixes for social security,
1-Raise the retirement age-- this has already been started and it is
probably the easiest.
2-Reduce benefits-- yes a huge lobby against that, somewhat greedy in my
mind.
I need to pay for them because they passed a program that allowed them not
to pay in
enough during there working years to support themselves. Yes, this was done
before I
was born. But I still must pay.
3-Increase workers SS taxes, already 12.% there has got to be a limit.
Yes, I know it is 6.2% for employee and 6.2% for employer, but all comes
from
the labor of the worker.
4-Means testing-- If you have saved and built a large nest egg (savings)
that
generates a retirement income for you then you SS check will reduded or
eliminated.
Also known as penalizing workers that save for there future. Especially hard
on middle
class workers that scrimped and saved there whole life and have savings and
then to
get penalized because they tried to get ahead. (that would be me :-)
5--- Eliminate any COLA's until the program is on a solid footing.
> Further, your anger seems to be fixated on the current administration, but
> let me remind you that it was the previous ones who got us here. For
> example, it was the GWB administration that increased Medicare benefits
> without increasing revenues, thus putting the system that many more years
> closer to bankruptcy.
> Vaughn
You don't need to convince me that GWB was not a good conservative
or helped in anyway to reduce the size of government.
I enjoy the exchange, helps me sharpen my arguments, I'm just a poor
boy from Michigan living in Florida.
Thanks, Mike
>
Posted by vaughn on June 8, 2010, 2:25 pm
> I'm back with a little time, This oil spill is wreaking havoc on life and
> business.
Sorry to hear about that, the whole situation stinks.
> But a little slower now.
With business, that is not always a good thing.>
> I don't disagree with that. (you need a plan)
But I haven't seen one yet
> It is only since we have had such an attack on the American way
Sorry, that that's just nonsense talk. Please be more specific.
> of life, the freedoms we have
In my lifetime, there is no administration that has mounted such an attack on
personal liberties as the last one. We saw citizens being unlawfully and
secretly spied on, we saw citizens and others locked up without charges and
without access to legal council and we saw the horribly misnamed "Patriot Act"
that threatens our liberty. Why did you folks wait until GWB left office to
start making noise?
, and capitalism
Specifics please?
> I believe people should have the right to succeed or fail without undo>
> influence of government. Although I do know, the importance of law> to allow
> businesses to have a framework of rules to work with each other, (contract
> law)
Agree
> I think the Tea party has the right ideas about small government, less taxes,
> and pro growth. I have attended several Tea Parties and recruit on anyone I
> can to come and see what we are about. The Tea Party is fighting a war of
> ideas, our president has the wrong ideas for America.
So far, I am still waiting to hear any coherent ideas form the Tea Party. So
far, all I am hearing from them is unfocused anger. Sorry, but if you are
looking for my vote, you will need to show me far more than your anger.
> Add to that, this is the first year I have ever sent political donations to
> candidates
Why? Specifically, what do you expect those folks to do?
> I see maybe five fixes for social security,
> 1-Raise the retirement age-- this has already been started and it is probably
> the easiest.
> 2-Reduce benefits-- yes a huge lobby against that, somewhat greedy in my
> mind. I need to pay for them because they passed a program that allowed them
> not to pay in enough during there working years to support themselves. Yes,
> this was done before I
> was born. But I still must pay.
Actually, the problem is mostly in our generation. Until recently, Social
Security has been generating a huge budget surplus that the rest of the
government has been using to help pay for the budget deficit. Only in the last
year or so have they actually started to cash in some of those bonds.
> 3-Increase workers SS taxes, already 12.% there has got to be a limit. Yes, I
> know it is 6.2% for employee and 6.2% for employer, but all comes from the
> labor of the worker.
No argument there.
> 4-Means testing-- If you have saved and built a large nest egg (savings) that
> generates a retirement income for you then you SS check will reduded or
> eliminated.
I don't agree with that one. That gives a negative incentive for savings, in a
country where we already don't save near enough.
> Also known as penalizing workers that save for there future. Especially hard
> on middle class workers that scrimped and saved there whole life and have
> savings and then to get penalized because they tried to get ahead. (that would
> be me :-)
And me.
> 5--- Eliminate any COLA's until the program is on a solid footing.
I am very lukewarm on that one. I have lived through double-digit inflation and
know what it does!. That would make retiring a very risky business. Do the
math! Do a spread sheet and see what a few years of 10% inflation would do to
you if you had a truly fixed income, but the entire working class were still
getting regular pay raises that were denied to you. Remember, inflation is
also a huge drain on the spending power of your savings, so savings are scant
protection against inflation.
In general, we are on the same page when it comes to SS, even though I stand to
lose in the short term from any reforms.
...
> or helped in anyway to reduce the size of government.
All Presidential candidates pretend to want to reduce the size of government.
Has any ever actually done it?
"Reducing the size of government" is one of those slogans that I tend to listen
to with great skepticism.
> boy from Michigan living in Florida.
I live in SE Florida and am originally from Detroit.
Vaughn
Posted by (PeteCresswell) on June 8, 2010, 3:01 pm
Per vaughn:
>> 5--- Eliminate any COLA's until the program is on a solid footing.
>I am very lukewarm on that one. I have lived through double-digit inflation
and
>know what it does!. That would make retiring a very risky business. Do the
>math! Do a spread sheet and see what a few years of 10% inflation would do to
>you if you had a truly fixed income, but the entire working class were still
>getting regular pay raises that were denied to you. Remember, inflation is
>also a huge drain on the spending power of your savings, so savings are scant
>protection against inflation.
I have never heard it expressed, but it seems to me one can view
inflation as an involuntary wealth transfer: from the people on
the bottom to the people above them economically.
To wit: those with steady jobs don't get their taxes raised to
cover the deficit - because any politician running on a platform
of "We need to raise taxes and cut entitlements" doesn't have
even the smallest chance of being elected - much less nominated.
Instead, in lieu of responsible fiscal policy, the deficit is
gradually repudiated through inflation.
Those employed people feel minimal pain because their wages rise
with inflation.
Those on fixed incomes are ruined and die in poverty.
Like Pogo said: "...the enemy is us..."
--
PeteCresswell
Posted by vaughn on June 8, 2010, 3:34 pm
> I have never heard it expressed, but it seems to me one can view
> inflation as an involuntary wealth transfer: from the people on
> the bottom to the people above them economically.
Not entirely. Inflation can be thought of as "the working man's friend"
because wages tend to rise with inflation while fixed interest debt melts away!
Just think what a few years of 10% inflation does to your fixed mortgage. A
payment that was (perhaps) up to 50% of your income dwindles away to mere pocket
change in just a few years.
That is a transfer of wealth in the downward direction.
> To wit: those with steady jobs don't get their taxes raised to
> cover the deficit - because any politician running on a platform
> of "We need to raise taxes and cut entitlements" doesn't have
> even the smallest chance of being elected - much less nominated.
True enough.
> Instead, in lieu of responsible fiscal policy, the deficit is
> gradually repudiated through inflation.
For savers, inflation is an invisible tax. The government is literally reaching
into your savings account and stealing value. Yes, interest rates do tend to go
up in inflationary times, but the interest never totally offsets inflation so
you still lose value...PLUS YOU MUST PAY INCOME TAX ON THE INTEREST. It is a
terrible deal.
> Those employed people feel minimal pain because their wages rise
> with inflation.
Exactly
> Those on fixed incomes are ruined and die in poverty.
Except for SS payments (which are indexed) that is too true.
That is why I am delaying drawing SS benefits, to make the SS part of my future
income as large as possible; specifically because SS is indexed for inflation.
I have seen double-digit inflation and know what happens. At the end of the
Clinton administration, it looked like inflation may have been tamed for the
rest of my life, but the GWB deficit quickly changed that outlook.
Vaughn
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>> Vauhn, I'm working hard to change what we have now.
> How so? If it your suggested "change" is to express your anger by simply
> ousting one politician in favor of another one, all we will end up with is
> more of what we have. -
> To bring about change, you need more than anger, you need a plan.
> Let's go back to Social security for a moment, becaus that seems to be one
> of the things that bothers you. All you need to do fix it is to either
> increase SS taxes or reduce benefits. (good luck on getting somebody to
> run on THAT platform!) The most painless way to bring the system into
> balance is to do more of what Clinton did; delay benefits by raising the
> "normal retirement age" to recognize the simple fact that we are living
> longer and most of us can work can work longer than our parents did.
> Even though I am near Social Security age, I would support a ystem that
> ties the SS retirement age to real actuarial data by some formula that
> would gradually put the system on more solid financial gronds and take the
> decisions away from politicians much the way the SS COLA is done today .
> Further, your anger seems to be fixated on the current administration, but
> let me remind you that it was the previous ones who got us here. For
> example, it was the GWB administration that increased Medicare benefits
> without increasing revenues, thus putting the system that many more years
> closer to bankruptcy.
> Vaughn