Going Green with Hydrogen Fuel Cell Powered...

wrote:

It seems that one would need to contact the AWEA to find out if the
archives were saved anywhere.

The guy had been off-grid for many years, had a low-pressure setup to
power his home needs, and a high-pressure setup for vehicles that he
wouldn't talk about for obvious reasons.

There's no genuinely practical route for any but perhaps the most
dedicated DIYer. Even then, it would more correctly be called "sweat
power".

Good luck. Not that I'm recommending it. Small farming operations
generally died off for very good reasons. At best the sweat-power
element will be unavoidable. Anyway, I'm looking forward to reading
about your experience. How long before you get started?

Wayne

Wayne,

I not terribly worried about it, I have at least 10 books on hydrogen,
the best for DIYers, in my opinion is a series that comes from
http://www.goodideacreative.com/wheelockmtn.html
They cover the building of low, medium, and high pressure systems that
include a step by step guide to home-make everything from
electrolyzers, systems, fuel cells, to PEMs. A little light on the
math, but that's well covered in other books and the author's
performance claims cross-check with the math in other books.

In my opinion, hydrogen used in I.C.E.s is best covered by a book
named "The Philosopher Mechanic " by Roy McAlister, not as strong in
the DIY area as it is with the math, but still a very comprehensive
look at a subject not widely written on.

The question always is: if not this, what?
For vehicles or machinery fuel what's the alternative?
I think small farming operations died off because the crops they
produced couldn't compete in the market place with the economy of
scale of the large corporate farms. Home bio-fuel doesn't compete with
food prices, it competes with fuel prices.

you get started?
As soon as I can find a place, I'm out of here, not much in the way of
on-line newspapers in small-town-USA, so I'm compiling a list and will
place a dozen want-ads shortly.

Curbie

wrote:

That's an oversimplification. Dry farming in an unforgiving climate
such as you seem to be contemplating, is hugely dependant on good
weather and endless hard work.

Your competition will be bad weather, short growing season, bugs,
critters, and physical and equipment breakdowns. All the very same
things that every farmer who ever lived contended with. Although one
guy had Mr. Haney working against him as well. :-)

Wayne

Respectfully, I was addressing what killed off small farming and I
think we've have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "over
simplification".

I certainly will have to deal with those common pitfalls but your
contention that they're somehow the competition to the current and
future price of fossil-fuels and their domino effects is confusing?

Up until last 150 years or so 99.9% of all humans that lived where
farmers, they had to be, and they all contended with your list of
woes, I.E. that list is manageable, if it wasn't we wouldn't be here.
The main problems with the location/climate I've chosen is water (snow
cistern) and soil conditions (compost).

For my list of home bio-fuel pros I think it is helpful to balance the
picture with your valid list of pitfalls, but the picture is not
complete without your alternative to this plan that will produce a
home fuel for powering vehicles & machines, without something to
compare this plan to your non-recommendation seems a bit hollow.

Walking or peddling to get from here to there is my definition of
"endless hard work" and as for paying for fuel, with the world
population going up, combined with the rapid increase in the "Standard
of Living" for places like China and India vastly increasing the
demand for a dwindling fossil-fuel supply, the double "supply and
demand" whammy is going to drastically increase the price of
everything which depends on fossil-fuels, which IS everything. The
only other option I can think of is the ways of the Amish or
Mennonites, another definition of "endless hard work".

Although the "Green Acres" analogy is amusing, it not real descriptive
in my case, when I was a kid (back in the stone-age) my mother was an
organic gardening "nut", she had big gardens in both Michigan and
Wisconsin, bad weather, short growing seasons, bugs, and critters are
not new to me, I had the summer chores of preparing the garden for
planting, tending the snow cistern & compost pile along winterizing.

Out of the three alternative energy systems I've planed only the
wind-turbine plans are completely based on computer modeling and books
with no practical experience, that plan concerns me the most, both the
bio-fuel and solar plans I have some direct or related practical
experience so I'm not too concerned with those.

Would be interested in hearing your plan if it's more substantial than
praying, although praying could hurt, I think there is a big problem
looming are requires a plan that's proven to work.

Curbie

wrote:

I don't have an alternative for your biofuel scenario, and I don't
think about off-grid living in terms of saving the world. From what
little I've heard so far, I expect you to have your hands full with
basic needs. As I said previously, the most common failure mode I've
seen with off-gridders is overreaching.

You might consider planning for minimal use of vehicles and machines
rather than try to grow and manufacture fuel for them. For example, if
you move somewhere that's 50 miles from town, and organize to only
make 2 trips per month, and get 25 miles per gallon at $4 per gallon,
then your vehicle fuel needs are $400 per year, which would hardly pay
for a single new tractor tire, much less all the other things that
will be needed for a biofuel operation.

Likewise, I think you'd be wise to seek the most moderate climate.
You'll be starting at a huge disadvantage if you choose a cold
location.

Douglas was as overconfident as several people I've seen fail to make
it off-grid.

Your lack of concern is what I'm concerned with. :-)

This site http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/klemen/Wind_Turbines_Home.htm
might help you get a feel for wind power in windy and cold climes. If
you prowl around a bit perhaps you'll find some of his detailed
maintenance stories, which sometimes weren't for the faint of heart.
At first glance I don't see them though, perhaps they were part of the
AWEA Home Wind archives. You could email him, which would give you a
chance to ask about farming as well.

Something else you should consider: areas with really good wind power
aren't places many are willing to live. My own area is considerably
less windy than the Dakotas, and yet many people talk about the wind
here as if it's a hated enemy. It does wear on you if you have to
spend a lot of time outdoors. My own site is windier than the general
area. I don't find it and issue because I work mostly indoors, and can
usually be flexible about when I work outdoors.

I don't believe in praying. I think what you'll find with some
experience is what most farmers find - that they can earn more at a
job than the crops are worth. I don't see how computer modeling gives
you a leg up over them, but I won't mind being proved wrong if that
happens.

I'll leave you with some parallels about a somewhat similarly
difficult undertaking - home-built aircraft. Most people who take that
on are already established in a proven lifestyle. The project
difficulties are easy to predict based on the experience of thousands
who've gone before. Time requirements vary, but tend to be in the 2 to
10 thousand hour range. All one has to do is plug away at a relaxed
pace in their spare time until it's done. Yet most severely
underestimate the time *their* particular project will take, and
overestimate their dedication. Consequently, only a small percentage
are completed.

As much as it must seem like I'm only out to discourage you, that's
not the case. I'm trying to make sure you understand that if you're
overreaching, you won't be the first or the last.

Wayne

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