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Posted by Curbie on June 15, 2009, 9:06 pm

Ok, my fuel picture is completed, so I'll spend some time on your
other points, although I mostly agree them. In my view there are three
reasons to be off-grid:
1)    Political, (green, hug a tree, save the world)
2)    Economic (save money over the long term)
3)    Security (energy independence)
I'm more about points 2 & 3 than 1, but I think all are perfectly
valid, although if for any reason someone else is heading in this
direction there doesn't seem to be a clear path, so if someone reads
any advice from me that they see value in, I don't mind helping out.
The two good things about free advice are firstly it's free and
secondly people are free to ignore it.

For the short term I agree with your point. I've settled in on three
home energy systems to be built over a 4-5 year period in this order:
1)    Solar heating (combined  water a space)
2)    Wind-turbine (electricity)
3)    Bio-fuel (ethanol)
I don't expect ethanol production to be ramped up to serve all my
needs in 4 years, just the foundation to build on for the future. I
think one personal point is appropriate here, I like building stuff, I
don't like golf, gin rummy or pass-times, building stuff both gives me
something to do and most of the time leaves me something useful.

I see your point may have some advantages for bio (fuel, food), but
what about electricity, the only option for that plan that I can see
is photo-voltaic and the conservation that goes with it. I could go
the moderate climate-PV route and handle any sporadic larger power
equipment requirements with a backup generator which I'll need for
either option, but after studying both options for a variety of
big-picture reasons my first choice is still the big wind location,
although the moderate climate-PV route is a backup if I can't find a
suitable big wind location.

Again we're back to "if not this, then what", I think the chances of
failure in hoping that we be able to afford the future domino effects
of the double "supply and demand" whammy the will come is also a risk.
I could fail either trying to avoid the problem by going off-grid OR
fail trying ignore this problem by purchasing a place in one of those
template retirement villages in the Ozarks.

I don't want to be perceived as just a "sky is falling guy", I like
building, growing, and designing stuff and don't really care for
pass-times and I've had an interest in alternative energies since the
80's. I'm not saying that I can't fail, but I kind of doubt that the
people you saw fail spent two years of 8 hour days researching the
options and designing a plan BEFORE they tried going off-grid. In my
opinion the better someone understands an issue, the more likely they
are to succeed at it.

Thanks for the link, I'll see what there.

For me your second point answers the first.

This a bit confusing, I'm not looking to do farming for a living (I do
computing for that) and I'm not sure term "farming" is the best
description, a more accurate description would be a home garden for
food (which I want to do) with a 1 to 2 acre feed-crop for bio-fuel
looking at a very modest 350-450 gallon yeild (.5 to .25 of publish

Computer modeling was done on house-hold heat-loss, solar heating,
electricity requirements, wind-turbine electricity production given a
location's resource, electricity storage, Heating Degree Days (HDD),
Cooling DD, Growing DD and bio-fuel feed crops that grow well with the
GDD for a particular location, along with some basic cost analyst for
the same.

I've been on the net since before it was widely accessible and have
developed a sense and have a proven strategy for trolls, IF I thought
you where trolling me this conversation would have never taken place
and you'd be in a killfile, I don't waste time on non-sense, but
opening a plan to scrutiny kicks up pit-falls that I may not have
thought of while there still time for adjustments or change. I think a
little caution is appropriate not to only focus on the pit-falls
without some attention to the merits and other options to any plan.


Posted by richard on June 17, 2009, 6:49 pm


Very nice web link with nothing in it.  You're getting funnier these days,
you complain about other people's post, now look at yourself....LOL.

Posted by wmbjkREMOVE on June 17, 2009, 11:45 pm


Gosh, a nitwit using an anonymous host. Whatever could it mean.

My post was quite clear - if anyone wants to read the material I
described, they'll have to dig it up somewhere.

BTW, the reason that the poster originally quit talking about his very
interesting project is because of A-hole responses like yours.


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