Posted by Jim on August 1, 2008, 7:31 am
This is a theoretical question, as I am just thinking of going Gorilla
solar and feeding some juice back into the grid.
We have a 3-phase input to the meter, as we once had a large 3-phase
4 ton condenser. Now everything is running on single phase, just by
tapping off one or the other of the 3 phases.
The question is, would it make any difference as far as the meter goes
and feeding juice back into the grid which phase the 220V would be fed
back on? I think the power company man told me that we had 3 phases
and a "stinger" phase coming into the box (I think that is grounded at
bottom of box, not sure about that).
Could you feed the juice back on any of the 3 phases and would it slow
the meter down, or would I have to get a single phase feed to the
house?
I wonder if anyone has come across a situation like this before?
Thanks,
Jim
Posted by BobG on August 1, 2008, 7:57 am
> I am just thinking of going Gorilla
=========================
Guerilla? Like revolutionaries? Or like putting KoKo on a treadmill
attached to a generator with a banana in front of it?
Posted by Neon John on August 1, 2008, 11:32 am
You have a "split delta" or "wild leg" or as your utility man called it a
"stinger" feed. It's not called a "stinger" for nothing. One side of the
pole transformer delta is center-tapped to feed you 120/240. The junction of
the other two windings is brought in to provide 240 three phase. that third
leg is called the "wild leg" because it is about 207 volts to ground! Not
phase to phase but phase to ground.
If you connect something between the stinger leg and ground, thinking that you
have 120 volts, you'll be vividly and unpleasantly surprised!
The meter can handle any combination of connections so you don't have to worry
about that.
I think I understand why they call it "guerilla" (NOT the ape). It's because
it looks like the guy is wearing camo. It's actually where all the blue smoke
leaked out very rapidly and deposited on his face when he made a little bitty
mistake.....
>This is a theoretical question, as I am just thinking of going Gorilla
>solar and feeding some juice back into the grid.
>We have a 3-phase input to the meter, as we once had a large 3-phase
>4 ton condenser. Now everything is running on single phase, just by
>tapping off one or the other of the 3 phases.
>The question is, would it make any difference as far as the meter goes
>and feeding juice back into the grid which phase the 220V would be fed
>back on? I think the power company man told me that we had 3 phases
>and a "stinger" phase coming into the box (I think that is grounded at
>bottom of box, not sure about that).
>Could you feed the juice back on any of the 3 phases and would it slow
>the meter down, or would I have to get a single phase feed to the
>house?
>I wonder if anyone has come across a situation like this before?
>Thanks,
>Jim
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
What do you call 4 Blondes in an Abrams? Air Tank.
Posted by Jim on August 1, 2008, 10:00 pm
Sorry about mis-spelling. I think the name comes from the fact that
the power company is not notified, as they will not pay you
the going rate for your power, a small fraction. THey also require
elaborate meterein/wiring setups, or just refuse to let you do it.
So, some people
just feed power back and slow the meter down or actually
reverse it if you have enough source power. From what I have
been reading the new grid-tie inverters are perfectly safe for
linemen getting power fed back into an open line, as the inverter
shuts down and disconnects the source when the pole power
drops. They are not cheap, and require solar voltage inputs
of 72 Volts to 200 VDC, so you have to put several panels in
series. I was just wondering about the present meter, but as
suggested changing back to regular feed might be possible
if the power company would not charge too much.
Thanks for all the help.
>You have a "split delta" or "wild leg" or as your utility man called it a
>"stinger" feed. It's not called a "stinger" for nothing. One side of the
>pole transformer delta is center-tapped to feed you 120/240. The junction of
>the other two windings is brought in to provide 240 three phase. that third
>leg is called the "wild leg" because it is about 207 volts to ground! Not
>phase to phase but phase to ground.
>If you connect something between the stinger leg and ground, thinking that you
>have 120 volts, you'll be vividly and unpleasantly surprised!
>The meter can handle any combination of connections so you don't have to worry
>about that.
>I think I understand why they call it "guerilla" (NOT the ape). It's because
>it looks like the guy is wearing camo. It's actually where all the blue smoke
>leaked out very rapidly and deposited on his face when he made a little bitty
>mistake.....
>>This is a theoretical question, as I am just thinking of going Gorilla
>>solar and feeding some juice back into the grid.
>>
>>We have a 3-phase input to the meter, as we once had a large 3-phase
>>4 ton condenser. Now everything is running on single phase, just by
>>tapping off one or the other of the 3 phases.
>>
>>The question is, would it make any difference as far as the meter goes
>>and feeding juice back into the grid which phase the 220V would be fed
>>back on? I think the power company man told me that we had 3 phases
>>and a "stinger" phase coming into the box (I think that is grounded at
>>bottom of box, not sure about that).
>>
>>Could you feed the juice back on any of the 3 phases and would it slow
>>the meter down, or would I have to get a single phase feed to the
>>house?
>>
>>I wonder if anyone has come across a situation like this before?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Jim
Posted by Neon John on August 2, 2008, 2:24 am
> They are not cheap, and require solar voltage inputs
>of 72 Volts to 200 VDC, so you have to put several panels in
>series.
I just can't figure any reasonable payback on this kind of system unless the
goodies are bought surplus or given to you.
>I was just wondering about the present meter, but as
>suggested changing back to regular feed might be possible
>if the power company would not charge too much.
To borrow a phrase from my friends at the NRA, "They'll take my 3-phase from
my cold dead hands!" I'd NEVER give up three phase power once it is
installed. That is, if you do anything mechanical. Lots and lots of machine
tools and stuff are available very cheaply because they have three phase
motors. And though they've narrowed the gap, three phase HVAC is still
cheaper to run and usually cheaper to buy than single phase.
I don't know of any utility around here that has a 3-phase surcharge. In
fact, 3-phase residential service is becoming more popular as houses turn into
McMansions. It gets quite uneconomical to run anything over about 7.5 tons on
single phase - if a unit an be found. The starting inrush of a compressor
that large guarantees dimming lights and stuff. So 3-phase is becoming
common. Heck, there's even three phase here in front of my cabin, 25 miles up
a winding mountain road from town.
Of course, you should check your utility's rate card to be sure that you're
not paying a surcharge. If you aren't then leave well enough alone. If you
are, maybe you can talk them into dropping it.
Most split-delta services like you have are actually implemented as a
split-open-delta, with one large pole pig to supply the main single phase
loads and only one more, usually significantly smaller pig for the other leg
of the open delta. The cost to the utility is therefore only marginally
higher than single phase. In return, they get some benefit (assuming the
3-phase is being used) in the form of better balance on each leg of the
distribution feeder. Therefore the utility doesn't have any real reason for a
surcharge.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources -Albert Einstein
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