Posted by Jim on August 6, 2008, 10:52 am
No surcharge, Neon. I'll keep it...
>> They are not cheap, and require solar voltage inputs
>>of 72 Volts to 200 VDC, so you have to put several panels in
>>series.
>I just can't figure any reasonable payback on this kind of system unless the
>goodies are bought surplus or given to you.
>>I was just wondering about the present meter, but as
>>suggested changing back to regular feed might be possible
>>if the power company would not charge too much.
>To borrow a phrase from my friends at the NRA, "They'll take my 3-phase from
>my cold dead hands!" I'd NEVER give up three phase power once it is
>installed. That is, if you do anything mechanical. Lots and lots of machine
>tools and stuff are available very cheaply because they have three phase
>motors. And though they've narrowed the gap, three phase HVAC is still
>cheaper to run and usually cheaper to buy than single phase.
>I don't know of any utility around here that has a 3-phase surcharge. In
>fact, 3-phase residential service is becoming more popular as houses turn into
>McMansions. It gets quite uneconomical to run anything over about 7.5 tons on
>single phase - if a unit an be found. The starting inrush of a compressor
>that large guarantees dimming lights and stuff. So 3-phase is becoming
>common. Heck, there's even three phase here in front of my cabin, 25 miles up
>a winding mountain road from town.
>Of course, you should check your utility's rate card to be sure that you're
>not paying a surcharge. If you aren't then leave well enough alone. If you
>are, maybe you can talk them into dropping it.
>Most split-delta services like you have are actually implemented as a
>split-open-delta, with one large pole pig to supply the main single phase
>loads and only one more, usually significantly smaller pig for the other leg
>of the open delta. The cost to the utility is therefore only marginally
>higher than single phase. In return, they get some benefit (assuming the
>3-phase is being used) in the form of better balance on each leg of the
>distribution feeder. Therefore the utility doesn't have any real reason for a
>surcharge.
>John
Posted by Ulysses on August 2, 2008, 1:10 pm
> Sorry about mis-spelling. I think the name comes from the fact that
> the power company is not notified, as they will not pay you
> the going rate for your power, a small fraction.
Actually I would not call that a mis-spelling. 10-15 years ago it was
common to refer to unauthorized connections as "Gorilla." I suspect this
intentional play on the word "guerilla" was just to make themselves a little
less visible when commenting about their systems on the internet.
Posted by daestrom on August 1, 2008, 3:03 pm
Jim wrote:
> This is a theoretical question, as I am just thinking of going Gorilla
> solar and feeding some juice back into the grid.
> We have a 3-phase input to the meter, as we once had a large 3-phase
> 4 ton condenser. Now everything is running on single phase, just by
> tapping off one or the other of the 3 phases.
> The question is, would it make any difference as far as the meter goes
> and feeding juice back into the grid which phase the 220V would be fed
> back on? I think the power company man told me that we had 3 phases
> and a "stinger" phase coming into the box (I think that is grounded at
> bottom of box, not sure about that).
> Could you feed the juice back on any of the 3 phases and would it slow
> the meter down, or would I have to get a single phase feed to the
> house?
> I wonder if anyone has come across a situation like this before?
Just an aside,
If you don't need the three-phase any more, why not ask the power company if
you would save anything by having the service converted to the more
conventional 120/240? Seems like this would save you a few bucks.
daestrom
Posted by Solar Flare on August 1, 2008, 10:12 pm
3 phase 4 wire delta service. Just dead end the single three phase leg with
the highest voltage on it. The other three legs are just a 120/240 volt
single phase service. Our utility got rid of them all years ago as there is
no accurate way of metering them with today's standards.
> Jim wrote:
>> This is a theoretical question, as I am just thinking of going Gorilla
>> solar and feeding some juice back into the grid.
>>
>> We have a 3-phase input to the meter, as we once had a large 3-phase
>> 4 ton condenser. Now everything is running on single phase, just by
>> tapping off one or the other of the 3 phases.
>>
>> The question is, would it make any difference as far as the meter goes
>> and feeding juice back into the grid which phase the 220V would be fed
>> back on? I think the power company man told me that we had 3 phases
>> and a "stinger" phase coming into the box (I think that is grounded at
>> bottom of box, not sure about that).
>>
>> Could you feed the juice back on any of the 3 phases and would it slow
>> the meter down, or would I have to get a single phase feed to the
>> house?
>>
>> I wonder if anyone has come across a situation like this before?
>>
> Just an aside,
> If you don't need the three-phase any more, why not ask the power company
> if you would save anything by having the service converted to the more
> conventional 120/240? Seems like this would save you a few bucks.
> daestrom
>
Posted by daestrom on August 2, 2008, 10:30 am
Solar Flare wrote:
> 3 phase 4 wire delta service. Just dead end the single three phase
> leg with the highest voltage on it. The other three legs are just a
> 120/240 volt single phase service. Our utility got rid of them all
> years ago as there is no accurate way of metering them with today's
> standards.
But I think the rate would be lower if he's only supplied single-phase.
Doesn't his power company charge more for a three-phase service? If he does
the 'conversion' himself, the power company still charges the higher rate
because that's what they are supplying.
daestrom
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>>of 72 Volts to 200 VDC, so you have to put several panels in
>>series.
>I just can't figure any reasonable payback on this kind of system unless the
>goodies are bought surplus or given to you.
>>I was just wondering about the present meter, but as
>>suggested changing back to regular feed might be possible
>>if the power company would not charge too much.
>To borrow a phrase from my friends at the NRA, "They'll take my 3-phase from
>my cold dead hands!" I'd NEVER give up three phase power once it is
>installed. That is, if you do anything mechanical. Lots and lots of machine
>tools and stuff are available very cheaply because they have three phase
>motors. And though they've narrowed the gap, three phase HVAC is still
>cheaper to run and usually cheaper to buy than single phase.
>I don't know of any utility around here that has a 3-phase surcharge. In
>fact, 3-phase residential service is becoming more popular as houses turn into
>McMansions. It gets quite uneconomical to run anything over about 7.5 tons on
>single phase - if a unit an be found. The starting inrush of a compressor
>that large guarantees dimming lights and stuff. So 3-phase is becoming
>common. Heck, there's even three phase here in front of my cabin, 25 miles up
>a winding mountain road from town.
>Of course, you should check your utility's rate card to be sure that you're
>not paying a surcharge. If you aren't then leave well enough alone. If you
>are, maybe you can talk them into dropping it.
>Most split-delta services like you have are actually implemented as a
>split-open-delta, with one large pole pig to supply the main single phase
>loads and only one more, usually significantly smaller pig for the other leg
>of the open delta. The cost to the utility is therefore only marginally
>higher than single phase. In return, they get some benefit (assuming the
>3-phase is being used) in the form of better balance on each leg of the
>distribution feeder. Therefore the utility doesn't have any real reason for a
>surcharge.
>John