Posted by Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's n on June 6, 2009, 4:25 am
>> What would supply the energy to compress the air and why would we not
>> just
>> run that energy source a directlly as possible to avoid more energy
>> losses
>> in an inefficient storage system?
> The goal/advantage would be to pressurize the air so
> the its energy density would be greater than the
> fuel source that it replace. When this is accomplished
> one can achieve the ultimate reward - a high density
> energy source coupled with an extremely efficient,
> simple and reliable engine/motor . One of the barriers to
> making a EV - is that while electric motors are simplier
> and more efficient than than gasoline/diesel engines
> - the energy density of the best EV fuel cells are about
> 1/3 to that of a petrol based one. So any efficiency
> gained from having a lighter more efficient engine/motor
> is lost because the increase weight of the energy source.
> By changing engine performance and lowering the
> overall vehicle mass a conventional diesel/gas cars to
> get between 60 to 100 mpg - yes - they go a bit slower
> ( 0-60 mph in 15 seconds) they can not go as
> fast maybe ( top out at 85 mph ) - but they get
> 60 to 100 mpg. So where do they exist? Well
> you have to go to the Europe or Japan....
> here are two examples that I know of.
> 2005-2009 Toyota Aygo (Japan/UK/Europe) - a conventional 4 door sedan
> using a 3 cylinder diesel, about 65 mpg
> ( sister cars = Peugeot 107 and Citroën C1 )
> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo
> 2010 Axon hatchback (UK) - a 2 seater hatchback, carbon fiber chassis,
> gasoline engine, claimed 100 mpg
> ( btw this vehicle is an entry into the Automotive X-Prize Contest
> for best most practical commuter car)
> see http://www.axonautomotive.com/cars.html
> Jeromy Clarkson of BBC's Top Gear ( a UK auto review TV show)
> criticizes
> electric vehicles, HeVs, and PHEV and because of the high cost and
> low energy density of batteries ( which means extra weight and lower
> range)
> He prefers using either a conventional diesel or gasoline engine to
> power a
> vehicle.
> ----------
> This comes as a bit of surprise. I would think the limited range of EV's
> would not be much of a problem in the UK. How often do Britains drive
> more than a hundred km or so? Or is the price of electric versus high mpg
> just too much.
I think Clarkson's argument was that hauling around all that extra weight in
the end burns up more energy than running a straight gas/diesel engine.
Motors have a different torque curve than engines so it's not that cut and
dry, but still something to ponder.
> One of the EV's shortcomings in the US market is the longer distances that
> Americans want in their vehicles.
Not to mention the fact that half of us drive around in snow for half the
year.
A local talk show host, who drives a Hummer H2, cracked after the first
serious snowfall the one year "Hey, all you hybrid drivers... how's that
working out for you? Getting thru the snow okay with ALL THAT POWER?".
On a more serious note, a local car Q&A guy told of driving an electric car
to a nearby town (about 30 miles, fairly hilly). The trip there was nice,
sunny weather, car zipped right along. Then they headed back. It started
raining, wipers on. It got cold, heater on. It got dark, headlights on.
Batteries drained, car slowed, and they barely made it back.
Hybrid or even electric works fine in Cali or Florida. WNYers need petro
engines, and often four wheel drive.
LG
--
"Keep it simple. If it takes a genius to understand it, it will never work."
- Clarence Leonard "Kelly" Johnson
Posted by residualselfimage1999 on June 6, 2009, 10:51 am
On Jun 6, 12:25am, "Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan!"
> >> What would supply the energy to compress the air and why would we not
> >> just run that energy source a directlly as possible to avoid more energy
> >> losses in an inefficient storage system?
> > The goal/advantage would be to pressurize the air so
> > the its energy density would be greater than the
> > fuel source that it replace. When this is accomplished
> > one can achieve the ultimate reward - a high density
> > energy source coupled with an extremely efficient,
> > simple and reliable engine/motor . One of the barriers to
> > making a EV - is that while electric motors are simplier
> > and more efficient than than gasoline/diesel engines
> > - the energy density of the best EV fuel cells are about
> > 1/3 to that of a petrol based one. So any efficiency
> > gained from having a lighter more efficient engine/motor
> > is lost because the increase weight of the energy source.
> > By changing engine performance and lowering the
> > overall vehicle mass a conventional diesel/gas cars to
> > get between 60 to 100 mpg - yes - they go a bit slower
> > ( 0-60 mph in 15 seconds) they can not go as
> > fast maybe ( top out at 85 mph ) - but they get
> > 60 to 100 mpg. So where do they exist? Well
> > you have to go to the Europe or Japan....
> > here are two examples that I know of.
> > 2005-2009 Toyota Aygo (Japan/UK/Europe) - a conventional 4 door sedan
> > using a 3 cylinder diesel, about 65 mpg
> > ( sister cars = Peugeot 107 and Citron C1 )
> > seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo
> > 2010 Axon hatchback (UK) - a 2 seater hatchback, carbon fiber chassis,
> > gasoline engine, claimed 100 mpg
> > ( btw this vehicle is an entry into the Automotive X-Prize Contest
> > for best most practical commuter car)
> > seehttp://www.axonautomotive.com/cars.html
> > Jeromy Clarkson of BBC's Top Gear ( a UK auto review TV show)
> > criticizes electric vehicles, HeVs, and PHEV and because of ]
> > the high cost and low energy density of batteries ( which
> > means extra weight and lower range)
> > He prefers using either a conventional diesel or gasoline engine to
> > power a vehicle.
> > ----------
> > This comes as a bit of surprise. I would think the limited range of EV's
> > would not be much of a problem in the UK. How often do Britains drive
> > more than a hundred km or so? Or is the price of electric versus high mpg
> > just too much.
> I think Clarkson's argument was that hauling around all that extra weight in
> the end burns up more energy than running a straight gas/diesel engine.
> Motors have a different torque curve than engines so it's not that cut and
> dry, but still something to ponder.
> > One of the EV's shortcomings in the US market is the longer distances that
> > Americans want in their vehicles.
> Not to mention the fact that half of us drive around in snow for half the
> year.
> A local talk show host, who drives a Hummer H2, cracked after the first
> serious snowfall the one year "Hey, all you hybrid drivers... how's that
> working out for you? Getting thru the snow okay with ALL THAT POWER?".
> On a more serious note, a local car Q&A guy told of driving an electric car
> to a nearby town (about 30 miles, fairly hilly). The trip there was nice,
> sunny weather, car zipped right along. Then they headed back. It started
> raining, wipers on. It got cold, heater on. It got dark, headlights on.
> Batteries drained, car slowed, and they barely made it back.
> Hybrid or even electric works fine in Cali or Florida. WNYers need petro
> engines, and often four wheel drive.
> LG
When the temperatures drop below 32 degrees Fahrenheit,
I believe a conventional fuel injected gas/diesel vehicle could
be designed to be more FE than electric motors when
driving with no or very little traffic/congestion on
the highway). However, I believe even in the bitter cold,
in congested stop and go traffic conditions, vehicles
based on electric motors with regenerative braking -
if given enough electric power - would offer more FE
than a petrol based engine.
There are two thing major trends that make me favor
the hybrid solution (1) the long term trend of rising
energy cost - especially that of petrol. (2) the long
term trend of increased traffic congestion in metropolitan
areas. The first trend suggest the need for future
higher vehicle fuel efficiency. The second trend
suggest a need for vehicles driving in metropolitan
areas to operated more efficiently in stop and go traffic
conditions. This second trend probably is less of
a concern for someone who lives in western
New York. Drivers using the roads along
New York City, Boston, Baltimore-Washington-
Arlington corridor will find dealing with traffic
congestion more of a challenge than
snow (since metro areas have the funds and
the resources get the snow removed and the
roads salted fairly quickly).
Posted by Richard W. on June 6, 2009, 5:09 pm
On Jun 6, 12:25 am, "Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan!"
> >> What would supply the energy to compress the air and why would we not
> >> just run that energy source a directlly as possible to avoid more
> >> energy
> >> losses in an inefficient storage system?
> > The goal/advantage would be to pressurize the air so
> > the its energy density would be greater than the
> > fuel source that it replace. When this is accomplished
> > one can achieve the ultimate reward - a high density
> > energy source coupled with an extremely efficient,
> > simple and reliable engine/motor . One of the barriers to
> > making a EV - is that while electric motors are simplier
> > and more efficient than than gasoline/diesel engines
> > - the energy density of the best EV fuel cells are about
> > 1/3 to that of a petrol based one. So any efficiency
> > gained from having a lighter more efficient engine/motor
> > is lost because the increase weight of the energy source.
> > By changing engine performance and lowering the
> > overall vehicle mass a conventional diesel/gas cars to
> > get between 60 to 100 mpg - yes - they go a bit slower
> > ( 0-60 mph in 15 seconds) they can not go as
> > fast maybe ( top out at 85 mph ) - but they get
> > 60 to 100 mpg. So where do they exist? Well
> > you have to go to the Europe or Japan....
> > here are two examples that I know of.
> > 2005-2009 Toyota Aygo (Japan/UK/Europe) - a conventional 4 door sedan
> > using a 3 cylinder diesel, about 65 mpg
> > ( sister cars = Peugeot 107 and Citroën C1 )
> > seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo
> > 2010 Axon hatchback (UK) - a 2 seater hatchback, carbon fiber chassis,
> > gasoline engine, claimed 100 mpg
> > ( btw this vehicle is an entry into the Automotive X-Prize Contest
> > for best most practical commuter car)
> > seehttp://www.axonautomotive.com/cars.html
> > Jeromy Clarkson of BBC's Top Gear ( a UK auto review TV show)
> > criticizes electric vehicles, HeVs, and PHEV and because of ]
> > the high cost and low energy density of batteries ( which
> > means extra weight and lower range)
> > He prefers using either a conventional diesel or gasoline engine to
> > power a vehicle.
> > ----------
> > This comes as a bit of surprise. I would think the limited range of EV's
> > would not be much of a problem in the UK. How often do Britains drive
> > more than a hundred km or so? Or is the price of electric versus high
> > mpg
> > just too much.
> I think Clarkson's argument was that hauling around all that extra weight
> in
> the end burns up more energy than running a straight gas/diesel engine.
> Motors have a different torque curve than engines so it's not that cut and
> dry, but still something to ponder.
> > One of the EV's shortcomings in the US market is the longer distances
> > that
> > Americans want in their vehicles.
> Not to mention the fact that half of us drive around in snow for half the
> year.
> A local talk show host, who drives a Hummer H2, cracked after the first
> serious snowfall the one year "Hey, all you hybrid drivers... how's that
> working out for you? Getting thru the snow okay with ALL THAT POWER?".
> On a more serious note, a local car Q&A guy told of driving an electric
> car
> to a nearby town (about 30 miles, fairly hilly). The trip there was nice,
> sunny weather, car zipped right along. Then they headed back. It started
> raining, wipers on. It got cold, heater on. It got dark, headlights on.
> Batteries drained, car slowed, and they barely made it back.
> Hybrid or even electric works fine in Cali or Florida. WNYers need petro
> engines, and often four wheel drive.
> LG
When the temperatures drop below 32 degrees Fahrenheit,
I believe a conventional fuel injected gas/diesel vehicle could
be designed to be more FE than electric motors when
driving with no or very little traffic/congestion on
the highway). However, I believe even in the bitter cold,
in congested stop and go traffic conditions, vehicles
based on electric motors with regenerative braking -
if given enough electric power - would offer more FE
than a petrol based engine.
There are two thing major trends that make me favor
the hybrid solution (1) the long term trend of rising
energy cost - especially that of petrol. (2) the long
term trend of increased traffic congestion in metropolitan
areas. The first trend suggest the need for future
higher vehicle fuel efficiency. The second trend
suggest a need for vehicles driving in metropolitan
areas to operated more efficiently in stop and go traffic
conditions. This second trend probably is less of
a concern for someone who lives in western
New York. Drivers using the roads along
New York City, Boston, Baltimore-Washington-
Arlington corridor will find dealing with traffic
congestion more of a challenge than
snow (since metro areas have the funds and
the resources get the snow removed and the
roads salted fairly quickly).
Actually those place that don't get much snow don't have the equimpment to
remove snow. Such as Portland, Salem, Vancouver WA. They can't justify the
expense of equimpment they might not need or need 1 to 2 weeks a year.
The problem with Hybrids is that diesels get more mileage in the same size
car for less money. My understanding is that hybrids are sold new at a loss
of around $0K each by the auto companys. Also the battery disposal hasn't
been figured in yet.
Richard W.
Posted by user on June 6, 2009, 5:57 pm
Richard W. wrote:
> On Jun 6, 12:25 am, "Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan!"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> What would supply the energy to compress the air and why would we not
>>>> just run that energy source a directlly as possible to avoid more
>>>> energy
>>>> losses in an inefficient storage system?
>>> The goal/advantage would be to pressurize the air so
>>> the its energy density would be greater than the
>>> fuel source that it replace. When this is accomplished
>>> one can achieve the ultimate reward - a high density
>>> energy source coupled with an extremely efficient,
>>> simple and reliable engine/motor . One of the barriers to
>>> making a EV - is that while electric motors are simplier
>>> and more efficient than than gasoline/diesel engines
>>> - the energy density of the best EV fuel cells are about
>>> 1/3 to that of a petrol based one. So any efficiency
>>> gained from having a lighter more efficient engine/motor
>>> is lost because the increase weight of the energy source.
>>> By changing engine performance and lowering the
>>> overall vehicle mass a conventional diesel/gas cars to
>>> get between 60 to 100 mpg - yes - they go a bit slower
>>> ( 0-60 mph in 15 seconds) they can not go as
>>> fast maybe ( top out at 85 mph ) - but they get
>>> 60 to 100 mpg. So where do they exist? Well
>>> you have to go to the Europe or Japan....
>>> here are two examples that I know of.
>>> 2005-2009 Toyota Aygo (Japan/UK/Europe) - a conventional 4 door sedan
>>> using a 3 cylinder diesel, about 65 mpg
>>> ( sister cars = Peugeot 107 and Citroën C1 )
>>> seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo
>>> 2010 Axon hatchback (UK) - a 2 seater hatchback, carbon fiber chassis,
>>> gasoline engine, claimed 100 mpg
>>> ( btw this vehicle is an entry into the Automotive X-Prize Contest
>>> for best most practical commuter car)
>>> seehttp://www.axonautomotive.com/cars.html
>>> Jeromy Clarkson of BBC's Top Gear ( a UK auto review TV show)
>>> criticizes electric vehicles, HeVs, and PHEV and because of ]
>>> the high cost and low energy density of batteries ( which
>>> means extra weight and lower range)
>>> He prefers using either a conventional diesel or gasoline engine to
>>> power a vehicle.
>>> ----------
>>> This comes as a bit of surprise. I would think the limited range of EV's
>>> would not be much of a problem in the UK. How often do Britains drive
>>> more than a hundred km or so? Or is the price of electric versus high
>>> mpg
>>> just too much.
>> I think Clarkson's argument was that hauling around all that extra weight
>> in
>> the end burns up more energy than running a straight gas/diesel engine.
>> Motors have a different torque curve than engines so it's not that cut and
>> dry, but still something to ponder.
>>
>>> One of the EV's shortcomings in the US market is the longer distances
>>> that
>>> Americans want in their vehicles.
>> Not to mention the fact that half of us drive around in snow for half the
>> year.
>>
>> A local talk show host, who drives a Hummer H2, cracked after the first
>> serious snowfall the one year "Hey, all you hybrid drivers... how's that
>> working out for you? Getting thru the snow okay with ALL THAT POWER?".
>>
>> On a more serious note, a local car Q&A guy told of driving an electric
>> car
>> to a nearby town (about 30 miles, fairly hilly). The trip there was nice,
>> sunny weather, car zipped right along. Then they headed back. It started
>> raining, wipers on. It got cold, heater on. It got dark, headlights on.
>> Batteries drained, car slowed, and they barely made it back.
>>
>> Hybrid or even electric works fine in Cali or Florida. WNYers need petro
>> engines, and often four wheel drive.
>>
>> LG
>
>
> When the temperatures drop below 32 degrees Fahrenheit,
> I believe a conventional fuel injected gas/diesel vehicle could
> be designed to be more FE than electric motors when
> driving with no or very little traffic/congestion on
> the highway). However, I believe even in the bitter cold,
> in congested stop and go traffic conditions, vehicles
> based on electric motors with regenerative braking -
> if given enough electric power - would offer more FE
> than a petrol based engine.
>
> There are two thing major trends that make me favor
> the hybrid solution (1) the long term trend of rising
> energy cost - especially that of petrol. (2) the long
> term trend of increased traffic congestion in metropolitan
> areas. The first trend suggest the need for future
> higher vehicle fuel efficiency. The second trend
> suggest a need for vehicles driving in metropolitan
> areas to operated more efficiently in stop and go traffic
> conditions. This second trend probably is less of
> a concern for someone who lives in western
> New York. Drivers using the roads along
> New York City, Boston, Baltimore-Washington-
> Arlington corridor will find dealing with traffic
> congestion more of a challenge than
> snow (since metro areas have the funds and
> the resources get the snow removed and the
> roads salted fairly quickly).
>
> Actually those place that don't get much snow don't have the equimpment to
> remove snow. Such as Portland, Salem, Vancouver WA. They can't justify the
> expense of equimpment they might not need or need 1 to 2 weeks a year.
>
> The problem with Hybrids is that diesels get more mileage in the same size
> car for less money.
Not in North America they don't. The 2010 Prius is a midsized car and
gets 50 mpg combined, 51 mpg in the city. The VW Jetta is rated at
combined 34mpg. Not even close.
My understanding is that hybrids are sold new at a loss
> of around $0K each by the auto companys.
LOL
Also the battery disposal hasn't
> been figured in yet.
They are recycled, Toyota has a bounty on theirs
>
> Richard W.
>
>
Posted by Richard W. on June 6, 2009, 7:20 pm
> Richard W. wrote:
>> On Jun 6, 12:25 am, "Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan!"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> What would supply the energy to compress the air and why would we not
>>>>> just run that energy source a directlly as possible to avoid more
>>>>> energy
>>>>> losses in an inefficient storage system?
>>>> The goal/advantage would be to pressurize the air so
>>>> the its energy density would be greater than the
>>>> fuel source that it replace. When this is accomplished
>>>> one can achieve the ultimate reward - a high density
>>>> energy source coupled with an extremely efficient,
>>>> simple and reliable engine/motor . One of the barriers to
>>>> making a EV - is that while electric motors are simplier
>>>> and more efficient than than gasoline/diesel engines
>>>> - the energy density of the best EV fuel cells are about
>>>> 1/3 to that of a petrol based one. So any efficiency
>>>> gained from having a lighter more efficient engine/motor
>>>> is lost because the increase weight of the energy source.
>>>> By changing engine performance and lowering the
>>>> overall vehicle mass a conventional diesel/gas cars to
>>>> get between 60 to 100 mpg - yes - they go a bit slower
>>>> ( 0-60 mph in 15 seconds) they can not go as
>>>> fast maybe ( top out at 85 mph ) - but they get
>>>> 60 to 100 mpg. So where do they exist? Well
>>>> you have to go to the Europe or Japan....
>>>> here are two examples that I know of.
>>>> 2005-2009 Toyota Aygo (Japan/UK/Europe) - a conventional 4 door sedan
>>>> using a 3 cylinder diesel, about 65 mpg
>>>> ( sister cars = Peugeot 107 and Citroën C1 )
>>>> seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo
>>>> 2010 Axon hatchback (UK) - a 2 seater hatchback, carbon fiber chassis,
>>>> gasoline engine, claimed 100 mpg
>>>> ( btw this vehicle is an entry into the Automotive X-Prize Contest
>>>> for best most practical commuter car)
>>>> seehttp://www.axonautomotive.com/cars.html
>>>> Jeromy Clarkson of BBC's Top Gear ( a UK auto review TV show)
>>>> criticizes electric vehicles, HeVs, and PHEV and because of ]
>>>> the high cost and low energy density of batteries ( which
>>>> means extra weight and lower range)
>>>> He prefers using either a conventional diesel or gasoline engine to
>>>> power a vehicle.
>>>> ----------
>>>> This comes as a bit of surprise. I would think the limited range of
>>>> EV's
>>>> would not be much of a problem in the UK. How often do Britains drive
>>>> more than a hundred km or so? Or is the price of electric versus high
>>>> mpg
>>>> just too much.
>>> I think Clarkson's argument was that hauling around all that extra
>>> weight in
>>> the end burns up more energy than running a straight gas/diesel engine.
>>> Motors have a different torque curve than engines so it's not that cut
>>> and
>>> dry, but still something to ponder.
>>>
>>>> One of the EV's shortcomings in the US market is the longer distances
>>>> that
>>>> Americans want in their vehicles.
>>> Not to mention the fact that half of us drive around in snow for half
>>> the
>>> year.
>>>
>>> A local talk show host, who drives a Hummer H2, cracked after the first
>>> serious snowfall the one year "Hey, all you hybrid drivers... how's that
>>> working out for you? Getting thru the snow okay with ALL THAT POWER?".
>>>
>>> On a more serious note, a local car Q&A guy told of driving an electric
>>> car
>>> to a nearby town (about 30 miles, fairly hilly). The trip there was
>>> nice,
>>> sunny weather, car zipped right along. Then they headed back. It started
>>> raining, wipers on. It got cold, heater on. It got dark, headlights on.
>>> Batteries drained, car slowed, and they barely made it back.
>>>
>>> Hybrid or even electric works fine in Cali or Florida. WNYers need petro
>>> engines, and often four wheel drive.
>>>
>>> LG
>>
>>
>> When the temperatures drop below 32 degrees Fahrenheit,
>> I believe a conventional fuel injected gas/diesel vehicle could
>> be designed to be more FE than electric motors when
>> driving with no or very little traffic/congestion on
>> the highway). However, I believe even in the bitter cold,
>> in congested stop and go traffic conditions, vehicles
>> based on electric motors with regenerative braking -
>> if given enough electric power - would offer more FE
>> than a petrol based engine.
>>
>> There are two thing major trends that make me favor
>> the hybrid solution (1) the long term trend of rising
>> energy cost - especially that of petrol. (2) the long
>> term trend of increased traffic congestion in metropolitan
>> areas. The first trend suggest the need for future
>> higher vehicle fuel efficiency. The second trend
>> suggest a need for vehicles driving in metropolitan
>> areas to operated more efficiently in stop and go traffic
>> conditions. This second trend probably is less of
>> a concern for someone who lives in western
>> New York. Drivers using the roads along
>> New York City, Boston, Baltimore-Washington-
>> Arlington corridor will find dealing with traffic
>> congestion more of a challenge than
>> snow (since metro areas have the funds and
>> the resources get the snow removed and the
>> roads salted fairly quickly).
>>
>> Actually those place that don't get much snow don't have the equimpment
>> to remove snow. Such as Portland, Salem, Vancouver WA. They can't justify
>> the expense of equimpment they might not need or need 1 to 2 weeks a
>> year.
>>
>> The problem with Hybrids is that diesels get more mileage in the same
>> size car for less money.
> Not in North America they don't. The 2010 Prius is a midsized car and gets
> 50 mpg combined, 51 mpg in the city. The VW Jetta is rated at combined
> 34mpg. Not even close.
Rabbit had an EPA rating on the highway of 50 mpg in 1980 with a diesel.
XML site map
>> just
>> run that energy source a directlly as possible to avoid more energy
>> losses
>> in an inefficient storage system?
> The goal/advantage would be to pressurize the air so
> the its energy density would be greater than the
> fuel source that it replace. When this is accomplished
> one can achieve the ultimate reward - a high density
> energy source coupled with an extremely efficient,
> simple and reliable engine/motor . One of the barriers to
> making a EV - is that while electric motors are simplier
> and more efficient than than gasoline/diesel engines
> - the energy density of the best EV fuel cells are about
> 1/3 to that of a petrol based one. So any efficiency
> gained from having a lighter more efficient engine/motor
> is lost because the increase weight of the energy source.
> By changing engine performance and lowering the
> overall vehicle mass a conventional diesel/gas cars to
> get between 60 to 100 mpg - yes - they go a bit slower
> ( 0-60 mph in 15 seconds) they can not go as
> fast maybe ( top out at 85 mph ) - but they get
> 60 to 100 mpg. So where do they exist? Well
> you have to go to the Europe or Japan....
> here are two examples that I know of.
> 2005-2009 Toyota Aygo (Japan/UK/Europe) - a conventional 4 door sedan
> using a 3 cylinder diesel, about 65 mpg
> ( sister cars = Peugeot 107 and Citroën C1 )
> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo
> 2010 Axon hatchback (UK) - a 2 seater hatchback, carbon fiber chassis,
> gasoline engine, claimed 100 mpg
> ( btw this vehicle is an entry into the Automotive X-Prize Contest
> for best most practical commuter car)
> see http://www.axonautomotive.com/cars.html
> Jeromy Clarkson of BBC's Top Gear ( a UK auto review TV show)
> criticizes
> electric vehicles, HeVs, and PHEV and because of the high cost and
> low energy density of batteries ( which means extra weight and lower
> range)
> He prefers using either a conventional diesel or gasoline engine to
> power a
> vehicle.
> ----------
> This comes as a bit of surprise. I would think the limited range of EV's
> would not be much of a problem in the UK. How often do Britains drive
> more than a hundred km or so? Or is the price of electric versus high mpg
> just too much.