Posted by News on June 20, 2009, 3:50 pm
> News wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The problem with Hybrids is that diesels get more mileage in the same
>>> size car for less money.
>>
>> They do not. Diesels are also filthy and noisy and good for tractors.
> Argue with Carnot. He says the efficiency of an engine
A hybrid has two engines, an electric and an IC, with brake regen. Very
different to a tractor only engine setup.
Posted by daestrom on June 6, 2009, 2:19 pm
>>
>>> What would supply the energy to compress the air and why would we not
>>> just
>>> run that energy source a directlly as possible to avoid more energy
>>> losses
>>> in an inefficient storage system?
>>
>> The goal/advantage would be to pressurize the air so
>> the its energy density would be greater than the
>> fuel source that it replace. When this is accomplished
>> one can achieve the ultimate reward - a high density
>> energy source coupled with an extremely efficient,
>> simple and reliable engine/motor . One of the barriers to
>> making a EV - is that while electric motors are simplier
>> and more efficient than than gasoline/diesel engines
>> - the energy density of the best EV fuel cells are about
>> 1/3 to that of a petrol based one. So any efficiency
>> gained from having a lighter more efficient engine/motor
>> is lost because the increase weight of the energy source.
>> By changing engine performance and lowering the
>> overall vehicle mass a conventional diesel/gas cars to
>> get between 60 to 100 mpg - yes - they go a bit slower
>> ( 0-60 mph in 15 seconds) they can not go as
>> fast maybe ( top out at 85 mph ) - but they get
>> 60 to 100 mpg. So where do they exist? Well
>> you have to go to the Europe or Japan....
>>
>> here are two examples that I know of.
>>
>> 2005-2009 Toyota Aygo (Japan/UK/Europe) - a conventional 4 door sedan
>> using a 3 cylinder diesel, about 65 mpg
>> ( sister cars = Peugeot 107 and Citroën C1 )
>> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo
>>
>> 2010 Axon hatchback (UK) - a 2 seater hatchback, carbon fiber chassis,
>> gasoline engine, claimed 100 mpg
>> ( btw this vehicle is an entry into the Automotive X-Prize Contest
>> for best most practical commuter car)
>> see http://www.axonautomotive.com/cars.html
>>
>>
>> Jeromy Clarkson of BBC's Top Gear ( a UK auto review TV show)
>> criticizes
>> electric vehicles, HeVs, and PHEV and because of the high cost and
>> low energy density of batteries ( which means extra weight and lower
>> range)
>> He prefers using either a conventional diesel or gasoline engine to
>> power a
>> vehicle.
>>
>> ----------
>>
>> This comes as a bit of surprise. I would think the limited range of EV's
>> would not be much of a problem in the UK. How often do Britains drive
>> more than a hundred km or so? Or is the price of electric versus high
>> mpg just too much.
> I think Clarkson's argument was that hauling around all that extra weight
> in the end burns up more energy than running a straight gas/diesel engine.
> Motors have a different torque curve than engines so it's not that cut and
> dry, but still something to ponder.
>> One of the EV's shortcomings in the US market is the longer distances
>> that Americans want in their vehicles.
> Not to mention the fact that half of us drive around in snow for half the
> year.
> A local talk show host, who drives a Hummer H2, cracked after the first
> serious snowfall the one year "Hey, all you hybrid drivers... how's that
> working out for you? Getting thru the snow okay with ALL THAT POWER?".
> On a more serious note, a local car Q&A guy told of driving an electric
> car to a nearby town (about 30 miles, fairly hilly). The trip there was
> nice, sunny weather, car zipped right along. Then they headed back. It
> started raining, wipers on. It got cold, heater on. It got dark,
> headlights on. Batteries drained, car slowed, and they barely made it
> back.
> Hybrid or even electric works fine in Cali or Florida. WNYers need petro
> engines, and often four wheel drive.
Try moving up to the Tug Hill Plateau. It makes WNY look like nice.
Highest record (unofficial because NWS doesn't have a station there) is 6 ft
in 24hrs.
From December thru February there is about a 50/50 chance I'll have to drive
through a white-out at least once a week.
I laugh at all the SUV, pickups and Hummers driving to work and I drive the
same 15 miles as they do in a simple two-wheel drive Chevy Lumina. Driving
in snow isn't about how much money you spend on your vehicle, it's knowing
how to stop/start and get up/down hills without ending up in the ditch. Bet
I could do it in a hybrid just as well. Once this Lumina gets to the
ten-year-old point, I'll probably find out.
daestrom
Posted by robert bowman on June 6, 2009, 6:46 pm
daestrom wrote:
> I laugh at all the SUV, pickups and Hummers driving to work and I drive
> the same 15 miles as they do in a simple two-wheel drive Chevy Lumina.
> Driving in snow isn't about how much money you spend on your vehicle, it's
> knowing how to stop/start and get up/down hills without ending up in the
> ditch. Â Bet I could do it in a hybrid just as well. Â Once this Lumina gets
> to the ten-year-old point, I'll probably find out.
Around here, it seems every year a significant number of motorists need a
refresher course to convince them a 4WD or AWD slides off the road just as
well as a Ford Pinto. My biggest concern is dodging the out of control
Hummers with my Yaris. Great little car, but not what you want to bring to
a demolition derby. The local driving conditions tend toward snow packed
and icy so I'll take a FWD car with studs all around over a SUV with all
weather radials any day.
Posted by Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's n on June 7, 2009, 2:24 am
>>
>>>
>>>> What would supply the energy to compress the air and why would we not
>>>> just
>>>> run that energy source a directlly as possible to avoid more energy
>>>> losses
>>>> in an inefficient storage system?
>>>
>>> The goal/advantage would be to pressurize the air so
>>> the its energy density would be greater than the
>>> fuel source that it replace. When this is accomplished
>>> one can achieve the ultimate reward - a high density
>>> energy source coupled with an extremely efficient,
>>> simple and reliable engine/motor . One of the barriers to
>>> making a EV - is that while electric motors are simplier
>>> and more efficient than than gasoline/diesel engines
>>> - the energy density of the best EV fuel cells are about
>>> 1/3 to that of a petrol based one. So any efficiency
>>> gained from having a lighter more efficient engine/motor
>>> is lost because the increase weight of the energy source.
>>> By changing engine performance and lowering the
>>> overall vehicle mass a conventional diesel/gas cars to
>>> get between 60 to 100 mpg - yes - they go a bit slower
>>> ( 0-60 mph in 15 seconds) they can not go as
>>> fast maybe ( top out at 85 mph ) - but they get
>>> 60 to 100 mpg. So where do they exist? Well
>>> you have to go to the Europe or Japan....
>>>
>>> here are two examples that I know of.
>>>
>>> 2005-2009 Toyota Aygo (Japan/UK/Europe) - a conventional 4 door sedan
>>> using a 3 cylinder diesel, about 65 mpg
>>> ( sister cars = Peugeot 107 and Citroën C1 )
>>> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo
>>>
>>> 2010 Axon hatchback (UK) - a 2 seater hatchback, carbon fiber chassis,
>>> gasoline engine, claimed 100 mpg
>>> ( btw this vehicle is an entry into the Automotive X-Prize Contest
>>> for best most practical commuter car)
>>> see http://www.axonautomotive.com/cars.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeromy Clarkson of BBC's Top Gear ( a UK auto review TV show)
>>> criticizes
>>> electric vehicles, HeVs, and PHEV and because of the high cost and
>>> low energy density of batteries ( which means extra weight and lower
>>> range)
>>> He prefers using either a conventional diesel or gasoline engine to
>>> power a
>>> vehicle.
>>>
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> This comes as a bit of surprise. I would think the limited range of
>>> EV's would not be much of a problem in the UK. How often do Britains
>>> drive more than a hundred km or so? Or is the price of electric versus
>>> high mpg just too much.
>>
>> I think Clarkson's argument was that hauling around all that extra weight
>> in the end burns up more energy than running a straight gas/diesel
>> engine. Motors have a different torque curve than engines so it's not
>> that cut and dry, but still something to ponder.
>>
>>> One of the EV's shortcomings in the US market is the longer distances
>>> that Americans want in their vehicles.
>>
>> Not to mention the fact that half of us drive around in snow for half the
>> year.
>>
>> A local talk show host, who drives a Hummer H2, cracked after the first
>> serious snowfall the one year "Hey, all you hybrid drivers... how's that
>> working out for you? Getting thru the snow okay with ALL THAT POWER?".
>>
>> On a more serious note, a local car Q&A guy told of driving an electric
>> car to a nearby town (about 30 miles, fairly hilly). The trip there was
>> nice, sunny weather, car zipped right along. Then they headed back. It
>> started raining, wipers on. It got cold, heater on. It got dark,
>> headlights on. Batteries drained, car slowed, and they barely made it
>> back.
>>
>> Hybrid or even electric works fine in Cali or Florida. WNYers need petro
>> engines, and often four wheel drive.
>>
> Try moving up to the Tug Hill Plateau. It makes WNY look like nice.
> Highest record (unofficial because NWS doesn't have a station there) is 6
> ft in 24hrs.
No argument from me. You guys do get hammered up there.
> From December thru February there is about a 50/50 chance I'll have to
> drive through a white-out at least once a week.
Why in God's name do you live there?
> I laugh at all the SUV, pickups and Hummers driving to work and I drive
> the same 15 miles as they do in a simple two-wheel drive Chevy Lumina.
> Driving in snow isn't about how much money you spend on your vehicle, it's
> knowing how to stop/start and get up/down hills without ending up in the
> ditch.
Very true. What many seem to forget is that a 4x4 slides just as easily as a
car when you hit the brakes, probably even more so with the extra weight.
That said, drivers being equal, the four by wins in snow. Proof? How many
plow trucks are 2wd?
>Bet I could do it in a hybrid just as well. Once this Lumina gets to the
>ten-year-old point, I'll probably find out.
Good luck.
LG
--
"Keep it simple. If it takes a genius to understand it, it will never work."
- Clarence Leonard "Kelly" Johnson
Posted by robert bowman on June 7, 2009, 5:48 am
Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan! wrote:
> That said, drivers being equal, the four by wins in snow. Proof? How many
> plow trucks are 2wd?
You mean the six wheelers with the sand/salt spreader on the rear and the
wing plow in front? Most of them, unless you want to count 4 wheels on one
axle as 4WD.
XML site map
>>
>>
>>> The problem with Hybrids is that diesels get more mileage in the same
>>> size car for less money.
>>
>> They do not. Diesels are also filthy and noisy and good for tractors.
> Argue with Carnot. He says the efficiency of an engine