Hybrid Car – More Fun with Less Gas

Has anyone seen a steam engine/electric battery hybrid vehicle? - Page 28

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Posted by News on June 21, 2009, 10:06 am

How much does Ethanol per gall cost to make?  It never stated.  Nothing new
here.  He has a fuel with low energy density and adapted a en engine to use
it.  Just an engine with another fuel.  All the talk of hybrids, etc, apply
equally well to petrol, ethanol, etc.

Posted by Day Brown on June 21, 2009, 5:05 pm
News wrote:

Aah, well- that's a dirty little secret.

The U of GA did a study on growing sorghum; 5 gallons of diesel tractor
fuel/acre. But if you crunch the numbers, you can figure out an acre
would produce 100-120 gallons, 375-450 liters.

Its real simple, butcha gotta do it in august. Mow the sorghum, haul it
to a crusher which merely cracks the stalks, then throw the whole mess,
leaves and all in a fermentation vat. 5 days later, you can begin to
siphon of some of the mash to run thru a solar heated still. It only
needs to get to 171 deg F to drive off the alcohol.

Then, you can spread it out on concrete slab, blacktop parking lot, even
black plastic to dry the mash in the sun. Which you can feed to cattle
all winter long. What's that worth?

You can run it thru the solar still every day for a few weeks. As you
can see, the capitalization costs are not that great, nor are the
fuel or chemical costs since sorghum is lots easier to deal with than maize.

what's the problem? ATF WOULD HAVE A SHIT FIT. What you have is engine
fuel all right, but its also 190 proof rum. You can drink it. Unlike
moonshine, it dont have any isopropyl alcohol in it.

Agribusiness grosses about 500$/acre growing maize; but then there's the
cost of tractor fuel and chemicals, which drag the net down to 400$. But
with sorghum, there is the dried mash to be sold as fodder, which would
equal 200-500$ worth of hay depending on how the local market is that
year. If its on the high end of that, the ethanol is free after the
capitalization costs are covered. How fast do you want the ROI?

Posted by harry on June 23, 2009, 6:20 pm
Hydrogen peroxide is not a fuel and therefore cannot be burned.  It is
just and alternative source of oxygen.  It breaks down into oxygen and
water.  It's expensive and unstable.   It is used on torpedoes which
run on IC engines to give them a source of oxygen.
However if there's a leak, it reacts violently with any combustable
substance. Even on it's own it can produce large amounts of steam and
oxygen, which is though to be what happened on the Kursk.

Posted by daestrom on June 21, 2009, 3:15 pm

What if you burned hydrogen peroxide instead? ..

I know this feels like beating a dead horse but
there is this web site on  a steam turbine engine
driven by burning a 40% hydrogen peroxide (H2O2)
sugar /water fuel  designed by a Nick Delchev. It
claims  that while the Hydrogen peroxide H202 based
fuel has only 1/3 the energy as ethanol per
gallon cost only 65 cents per gallon to make. They
also claimed that this  Devchev steam turbine would
need only two gallons of hydrogen peroxide fuel to run
the same load as a conventional piston engine using
one gallon of ethanol. see


In adition researchers at Vanderbilt University
in Nashville, Tennessee used a concentrated
form of hydrogen peroxide to generate steam
to power a robotic arm. see..

Bionic Arm Powered by Rockets
Charles Q Choi  Live science
29 August 2007

unlike wood - hydroperoxide fuel used in
both cases above was extremely dangerous/caustic
however, the steam generate by burning
such a fuel would equally as dangerous.

Dangerous as in H2O2 powered torpedo was responsible for sinking the Russian
nuclear submarine Kursk.  The western navies stopped using it as torpedo
fuel decades ago (the UK lost a sub to it as well in 1955).  If a war ship
considers the stuff too dangerous to have around, I don't think I'd want it
in cars being driven and serviced by the average Joe Sixpack.


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