Posted by harry on August 16, 2009, 2:11 pm
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:09:57 -0700 (PDT), harry
> >> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:20:26 -0700 (PDT), harry
> >> >On Aug 11, 12:09 pm, Archimedes' Lever
> >> >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:05:42 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >>> Don T wrote:
> >> >> >>>> Again power is not measured in AMP, but in WATT you stupid jerks,
Give it
> >> >> >>>> up now suckers.
> >> >> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> >> >>>> If you know it all answer me this. Why are tools like electric
drills and
> >> >> >>>> even shop vacuums listed as having 6.0 AMP etc. motors?
> >> >>
>>>>http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/CategoryOverview.aspx?cPat ...
> >> >> >>> Because it makes better advertising copy than 0.48 horsepower?? :-)
> >> >> >>> daestrom
> >> >> >> => snicker <=
> >> >> >> Probable, but it makes the statement that "power is never measured in
> >> >> >>ampere units" quite wrong.
> >> >> >The 6 amp motor means it draws 6 amps from the mains. It does not mean
> >> >> >ANYTHING as far as how much power it produces, other than that it
> >> >> >cannot produce more than 690 watts at 115 volts
> >> >> You're an idiot. First off, there are ZERO 115 volt circuits here.
> >> >> Secondly, everything that runs on standard AC that relates to raw power
> >> >> is declared in Amps.
> >> >> Look at vacuum cleaners, and the hand drill.
> >> >> Anything that competes with other makers that runs on a motor, competes
> >> >> with each other over how fast or how strong or how well it can do the
> >> >> job.
> >> >> A dremel tool talks about top rotational speed as that is more important
> >> >> than shaft torque.
> >> >> Drills and vacuum cleaners refer to the amperage of the motor.
> >> >> So, YES it DOES mean EVERYTHING about how much power it has in a world
> >> >> where the source voltage is known.
> >> >You are both wrong.
> >> >With AC, Volts x Amps only gives the power with a resistive (heating)
> >> >load.
> >> >If you have an inductive load this is no longer true. (ie a motor.)
> >> >If it was a pure inductor, you could draw as many amps as you liked
> >> >and no power would be consumed.
> >> >Pure inductors only exist in theory BTW.
> >> >If you connect a capacitor across the mains, it will draw current but
> >> >no power will be consumed (virtually).
> >> >Pure capacitors (as near as dammit) exist.
> >> >The pair of you study this:
> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
> >> >I don't know where you Yanks get educated. God help America!
> >> I know you said for "Pure capacitors" and "ideal inductors".But just
> >> in case newb takes you literally caps will dissapete power in the form
> >> of heating due to esr,and they will fail if rms current rateings arent
> >> followed.Well you would think this is obvious a lot of SMPS's still
> >> fail due to insufficent rated capacitors for rms current handling
> >> derated for temp and frequency.
> >> Inductors also have DC losses (DCR),and AC core losses,insulateing
> >> breakdown interwinding capacitance,eddy losses etc.
> >BTW.
> >RMS means Root of the Mean Squared
> >It's a sort of "average" that indicates the DC equivalent of the
> >waveform.
> >EG For a sine wave the RMS value is 0.636 of the peak value.
> >For a square wave it is 0.5 of the peak value.
> >This is not a technically correct explanation BTW but I'm trying to
> >make it easy for you
> Actually its not correct at all.I'll ignore your feeble attempt at an
> insult.
> I think you may want to take a closure look at capacitors. They do
> indeed have a resistive component obviously we aren't talking about a
> resistor but it's the sum of all intrinsic extrinsic imperfections
> impurities (chemical and packaging imperfections). This is modeled as
> a resistor in series with the cap, this is responsible for capacitor
> heating from ripple current. Several types of caps have double digit
> esr figures go to digikey and look up Tantulm caps they spec the esr
> parametrically. Polymer caps have single milli ohms digit or low teens
> milli ohms esr but you pay for them in price as well as possibly a
> more complicated loop compensation may be required for smps or LDO due
> to the esr zero being useless at the HF that a small esr puts it
> at.All capacitors have leakage as well; modeled as parallel resistor,
> you place an additional resistor for discharging if the load wont
> drain it quick enough at power off to comply with safety regulations
> or if it's a requirement of the device to insure correct operation.
> I'll leave the effect of inductances as a much needed exercise for you
> to investigate.
> When discussing power typically one uses average waveforms with
> exception of say a sine wave with both positive and negative area
> under the curve being equal; obviously the average would be zero This
> would also apply to bipolar square waves haveing equal area +/-. Hence
> rms describes the equivalent heating effect of a resistor.
> Oh and by the way the mean of a sine wave is 0.636 the crest factor is
> 1/sqrt(2) and the rms is sqrt(2).
Why do you bring up this irrelevent drive,l?
Posted by Hammy on August 16, 2009, 2:32 pm
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:11:33 -0700 (PDT), harry
>> I think you may want to take a closure look at capacitors. They do
>> indeed have a resistive component obviously we aren't talking about a
>> resistor but it's the sum of all intrinsic extrinsic imperfections
>> impurities (chemical and packaging imperfections). This is modeled as
>> a resistor in series with the cap, this is responsible for capacitor
>> heating from ripple current. Several types of caps have double digit
>> esr figures go to digikey and look up Tantulm caps they spec the esr
>> parametrically. Polymer caps have single milli ohms digit or low teens
>> milli ohms esr but you pay for them in price as well as possibly a
>> more complicated loop compensation may be required for smps or LDO due
>> to the esr zero being useless at the HF that a small esr puts it
>> at.All capacitors have leakage as well; modeled as parallel resistor,
>> you place an additional resistor for discharging if the load wont
>> drain it quick enough at power off to comply with safety regulations
>> or if it's a requirement of the device to insure correct operation.
>> I'll leave the effect of inductances as a much needed exercise for you
>> to investigate.
>>
>> When discussing power typically one uses average waveforms with
>> exception of say a sine wave with both positive and negative area
>> under the curve being equal; obviously the average would be zero This
>> would also apply to bipolar square waves haveing equal area +/-. Hence
>> rms describes the equivalent heating effect of a resistor.
>>
>> Oh and by the way the mean of a sine wave is 0.636 the crest factor is
>> 1/sqrt(2) and the rms is sqrt(2).
>Why do you bring up this irrelevent drive,l?
It is entirely relevant to your previous post. That's why I posted it.
I know if I posted asinine drivel like you I would probably be eager
to forget it too. But here I'll paste it here for you to jar your
feeble brain.
>>harry wrote
>>"Practical capacitors are virtually "pure" ie they have virtually no
>>resistance component. Occasionally you will find a capacitor that
>>has an actual internal resistor wired in. This is to discharge
>>thecapacitor when it is disconnected from the electricity. (A safety
>>device.)"
Ring any bells? The first sentence shows your ignorance.This is
entirely dependent on the capacitor type as well as the application it
is applied to.Depending on the ripple current 0.1 ohm may not be
negligible let alone 5.
You know there are some people who can be arrogant about a subject
I've met a very few ,but you sure aren't one of them. You should
follow some simple advice if you don't know what your talking about
STFU.At the very least dont come off like an arrogant obnoxious ass.
Posted by Hammy on August 14, 2009, 3:42 pm
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:09:57 -0700 (PDT), harry
>BTW.
>RMS means Root of the Mean Squared
>It's a sort of "average" that indicates the DC equivalent of the
>waveform.
>EG For a sine wave the RMS value is 0.636 of the peak value.
>For a square wave it is 0.5 of the peak value.
Christ your a moron what about duty cycle this has no effect on the
average of your Theoretical square wave? Consider also transient
excursions and rise fall times if you want to get anal about it.
Any idiot can quote formulas some one else derived for well known
waveforms they are in every power electronics book.Mind you you seem
to be haveing trouble interpeting those. It's when youy get to non
periodic waveforms it gets intresting.
>This is not a technically correct explanation BTW but I'm trying to
>make it easy for you
so right you are there.
Posted by harry on August 15, 2009, 2:51 pm
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:09:57 -0700 (PDT), harry
> >BTW.
> >RMS means Root of the Mean Squared
> >It's a sort of "average" that indicates the DC equivalent of the
> >waveform.
> >EG For a sine wave the RMS value is 0.636 of the peak value.
> >For a square wave it is 0.5 of the peak value.
> Christ your a moron what about duty cycle this has no effect on the
> average of your Theoretical square wave? Consider also transient
> excursions and rise fall times if you want to get anal about it.
> Any idiot can quote formulas some one else derived for well known
> waveforms they are in every power electronics book.Mind you you seem
> to be haveing trouble interpeting those. It's when youy get to non
> periodic waveforms it gets intresting.
> >This is not a technically correct explanation BTW but I'm trying to
> >make it easy for you
> so right you are there.
Transients are exactly that.
Posted by Hammy on August 15, 2009, 9:25 pm
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:51:28 -0700 (PDT), harry
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:09:57 -0700 (PDT), harry
>>
>> >BTW.
>> >RMS means Root of the Mean Squared
>> >It's a sort of "average" that indicates the DC equivalent of the
>> >waveform.
>> >EG For a sine wave the RMS value is 0.636 of the peak value.
>> >For a square wave it is 0.5 of the peak value.
>>
>> Christ your a moron what about duty cycle this has no effect on the
>> average of your Theoretical square wave? Consider also transient
>> excursions and rise fall times if you want to get anal about it.
>>
>> Any idiot can quote formulas some one else derived for well known
>> waveforms they are in every power electronics book.Mind you you seem
>> to be haveing trouble interpeting those. It's when youy get to non
>> periodic waveforms it gets intresting.
>>
>> >This is not a technically correct explanation BTW but I'm trying to
>> >make it easy for you
>>
>> so right you are there.
>Transients are exactly that.
What the hell are you talking about.
Transient defintion http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transient
A transient phenomenon, especially an electric current; a very brief
surge.
excursions defintion http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/excursion
A brief recreational trip; a journey out of the usual way
So you would consider modulated waveforms (digital/ data/audio) as
transients. Thats a pretty unique interpetation. Wow I could have made
my testing much simpler when asked to identify modulation tequniques
all I had to say is it's a transient.
Do you even know the difference between a periodic wave an a
non-periodic wave?
XML site map
> >> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:20:26 -0700 (PDT), harry
> >> >On Aug 11, 12:09 pm, Archimedes' Lever
> >> >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:05:42 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >>> Don T wrote:
> >> >> >>>> Again power is not measured in AMP, but in WATT you stupid jerks,