Posted by clare on July 8, 2009, 3:14 am
wrote:
>Richardson wrote:
>> Yup 10% if you battery is at 12.05V, and only 7% after charging voltage
>> went to 14.04V.
>>
>> Now don't confuse now, voltage doesn't mean CURRENT, they are two different
>> things.
>>
>> Don't ask me why, ask BOSH and AC Delco designed their regulators that way.
>> Forget about buying bigger alternator if you want more power off your
>> alternator, what you have to do is to learn how to control your regulator,
>> another words learn how to command it to output more CURRENT. If you make
>> mistake, your car will go to a junkyard, I warn you.
>>
>> I removed alternators off many vehicles over 50 times per month. Not even
>> single mistake have I made. I am giving you this tip for your own benefit.
>> Oh by the way any one of your idiots know how to double the power off your
>> Alternator? Let's say it's a 150amp alt, can you double its output? The
>> answer is Yes you can.
>>
>> I work with Alternator to help my customers increase fuel efficiency.
>> That's how I arrive to see the benefit of alternator in Wind Power. Since
>> you idiots like cheap stuffs, you might as well start from scratch, go
>> under your car, and monkey around.
>>
>>
>You seem pretty confused. A car alternator with regulator is not
>supposed to put out full current all the time, it is supposed to
>maintain a particular voltage. That's why it's called a 'voltage
>regulator'.
>Yes, when the battery is charged up and you don't have a ton of
>accessories running, the alternator output is rather low. But in that
>situation it requires very little power from the engine to spin it, so
>there is no real loss.
>Tinkering around with the regulator while it is still in the car will
>just cause it to over-charge the battery, heat it up and accomplish
>little else.
>If you have a large RV or a large 12V load you want to supply, a bigger
>alternator will supply the load continuously without discharging the
>battery. But just about all cars come with an alternator sized to power
>the electrical equipment in the car just fine.
>Now, if you take it *out* of the car and use it for some other sort of
>purpose besides charging the battery in your car, yes you can do all
>sorts of things to it. Raise the field current and you can even get a
>much higher voltage out of it (say, even 48V or higher).
>daestrom
Even 150 volts or more.
At just a fast idle the 35 amp alternator on my Dad's old dodge van
provided enough power to run 2 skill saws, or 2 half inch drills, or
one of each (all universal motor, non variable speed tools) at once.
That was 30 amps at a voltage that varied, depending on load, from
about 110 to 150. If you cranked the speed up the voltage just kept
climbing - but over 150 volts the rectifier diodes were getting well
up close to their maximum voltage limit, and the stator winding
insulation, designed for 12 volts, was also being run close to it's
limits.
He wired a lot of houses using that old van as a genset (often sat
running 8 or 9 hours in a day - though more often closer to 5 or so)
and occaisionally provided power for the framers as well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Posted by News on July 8, 2009, 9:15 am
> Richardson wrote:
>> Yup 10% if you battery is at 12.05V, and only 7% after charging voltage
>> went to 14.04V.
>>
>> Now don't confuse now, voltage doesn't mean CURRENT, they are two
>> different
>> things.
>>
>> Don't ask me why, ask BOSH and AC Delco designed their regulators that
>> way.
>> Forget about buying bigger alternator if you want more power off your
>> alternator, what you have to do is to learn how to control your
>> regulator,
>> another words learn how to command it to output more CURRENT. If you
>> make
>> mistake, your car will go to a junkyard, I warn you.
>>
>> I removed alternators off many vehicles over 50 times per month. Not
>> even
>> single mistake have I made. I am giving you this tip for your own
>> benefit.
>> Oh by the way any one of your idiots know how to double the power off
>> your
>> Alternator? Let's say it's a 150amp alt, can you double its output? The
>> answer is Yes you can.
>>
>> I work with Alternator to help my customers increase fuel efficiency.
>> That's how I arrive to see the benefit of alternator in Wind Power.
>> Since
>> you idiots like cheap stuffs, you might as well start from scratch, go
>> under your car, and monkey around.
> You seem pretty confused.
He does.
> A car alternator with regulator is not supposed to put out full current
> all the time, it is supposed to maintain a particular voltage. That's why
> it's called a 'voltage regulator'.
> Yes, when the battery is charged up and you don't have a ton of
> accessories running, the alternator output is rather low. But in that
> situation it requires very little power from the engine to spin it, so
> there is no real loss.
Yep. I don't think he knows that. Somehow I don't think he is tortured
genius.
Posted by harry on July 8, 2009, 7:24 pm
> > Richardson wrote:
> >> Yup 10% if you battery is at 12.05V, and only 7% after charging voltage
> >> went to 14.04V.
> >> Now don't confuse now, voltage doesn't mean CURRENT, they are two
> >> different
> >> things.
> >> Don't ask me why, ask BOSH and AC Delco designed their regulators that
> >> way.
> >> Forget about buying bigger alternator if you want more power off your
> >> alternator, what you have to do is to learn how to control your
> >> regulator,
> >> another words learn how to command it to output more CURRENT. If you
> >> make
> >> mistake, your car will go to a junkyard, I warn you.
> >> I removed alternators off many vehicles over 50 times per month. Not
> >> even
> >> single mistake have I made. I am giving you this tip for your own
> >> benefit.
> >> Oh by the way any one of your idiots know how to double the power off
> >> your
> >> Alternator? Let's say it's a 150amp alt, can you double its output? The
> >> answer is Yes you can.
> >> I work with Alternator to help my customers increase fuel efficiency.
> >> That's how I arrive to see the benefit of alternator in Wind Power.
> >> Since
> >> you idiots like cheap stuffs, you might as well start from scratch, go
> >> under your car, and monkey around.
> > You seem pretty confused.
> He does.
> > A car alternator with regulator is not supposed to put out full current
> > all the time, it is supposed to maintain a particular voltage. That's why
> > it's called a 'voltage regulator'.
> > Yes, when the battery is charged up and you don't have a ton of
> > accessories running, the alternator output is rather low. But in that
> > situation it requires very little power from the engine to spin it, so
> > there is no real loss.
> Yep. I don't think he knows that. Somehow I don't think he is tortured
> genius.
Automobile alternator voltage can't usually be tampered with (at least
not in the UK) as they are controlled by a Zener diode. There used to
be an external "box" that had the thing inside but nowadays it's all
completely internal to the alternator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zener_diode
Posted by Tim Jackson on July 8, 2009, 7:38 pm
harry wrote:
>
> Automobile alternator voltage can't usually be tampered with (at least
> not in the UK) as they are controlled by a Zener diode. There used to
> be an external "box" that had the thing inside but nowadays it's all
> completely internal to the alternator.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zener_diode
It's not actually a zener diode, but it is a sealed potted and/or
integrated circuit, and it does include some sort of reference diode.
It is to all intents and purposes an amplifier which produces an output
current in the field coil proportional to the difference between the
output (ie battery) voltage and its shut off point, something like
14.5V. The lower the voltage, the higher the field current and
therefore, indirectly, the output current.
A zener diode regulates voltage by dumping excess current, and so would
a) get very hot, and b) be a significant load on your engine.
While I wouldn't expect to to take one apart non-destructively, the
entire module can be removed and replaced with a circuit of your own
contrivance, should you so desire. It's not rocket science. I
reverse-engineered one once for a classic car when I couldn't get the
original.
Tim Jackson
Posted by m II on July 9, 2009, 3:51 am
harry wrote:
> Automobile alternator voltage can't usually be tampered with (at least
> not in the UK) as they are controlled by a Zener diode.
Close, but not right.
English motorcycles, during the Lucas days, DID use Zener diodes to
regulate voltage. It's rather inefficient, as the surplus amperage was
dumped directly to ground. In the case of the Lucas alternators, it
wasn't a big deal, as they put out roughly 150 watts Maximum.
A finned heat sink kept the diode from destroying itself.
No self respecting car has, to the best of my knowledge, ever used that
setup. It's far more efficient to regulate the field magnetism of the
alternator. That's a hard thing to do with the permanent magnet setups
of the old bikes.
The three phase wound rotor(field) alternator is almost the universal
setup on bikes today. Harley being a notable exception, with permanent
magnets on most, if not all of their models. They use a transistorized
regulator to block excess current flow instead of dumping it to ground.
mike
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>> Yup 10% if you battery is at 12.05V, and only 7% after charging voltage
>> went to 14.04V.
>>
>> Now don't confuse now, voltage doesn't mean CURRENT, they are two different
>> things.
>>
>> Don't ask me why, ask BOSH and AC Delco designed their regulators that way.
>> Forget about buying bigger alternator if you want more power off your
>> alternator, what you have to do is to learn how to control your regulator,
>> another words learn how to command it to output more CURRENT. If you make
>> mistake, your car will go to a junkyard, I warn you.
>>
>> I removed alternators off many vehicles over 50 times per month. Not even
>> single mistake have I made. I am giving you this tip for your own benefit.
>> Oh by the way any one of your idiots know how to double the power off your
>> Alternator? Let's say it's a 150amp alt, can you double its output? The
>> answer is Yes you can.
>>
>> I work with Alternator to help my customers increase fuel efficiency.
>> That's how I arrive to see the benefit of alternator in Wind Power. Since
>> you idiots like cheap stuffs, you might as well start from scratch, go
>> under your car, and monkey around.
>>
>>
>You seem pretty confused. A car alternator with regulator is not
>supposed to put out full current all the time, it is supposed to
>maintain a particular voltage. That's why it's called a 'voltage
>regulator'.
>Yes, when the battery is charged up and you don't have a ton of
>accessories running, the alternator output is rather low. But in that
>situation it requires very little power from the engine to spin it, so
>there is no real loss.
>Tinkering around with the regulator while it is still in the car will
>just cause it to over-charge the battery, heat it up and accomplish
>little else.
>If you have a large RV or a large 12V load you want to supply, a bigger
>alternator will supply the load continuously without discharging the
>battery. But just about all cars come with an alternator sized to power
>the electrical equipment in the car just fine.
>Now, if you take it *out* of the car and use it for some other sort of
>purpose besides charging the battery in your car, yes you can do all
>sorts of things to it. Raise the field current and you can even get a
>much higher voltage out of it (say, even 48V or higher).
>daestrom