Posted by AlanC37@teranews.com on January 16, 2009, 10:51 am
>>
>> > If you would like to pay through the nose to construct and operate a
>> > pump storage facility, it is a possibility. But the economics of home
>> > wind are marginal, and by adding pumped storage, one would be paying a
>> > huge amount per kWh.
>> How so?
Some years ago I worked out the amounts of water involved in this sort of
scheme. The results surprised me a lot.
If you want 1 kW continuously and have a height difference of 30 ft and
need to store one week's worth of water you need two ponds with a depth of 4
feet and a surface area of about 1.37 acres. Each pond
must hold nearly 1.5 million Imperial gallons or 15 million pounds of water.
1 kW is not much use and is worth about 11 cents per hour here (Ontario).
My house used to use about 3.5 kW continuously throughout the year. My land
is less than 1 acre and the maximum height difference is about 6 ft. so I
cannot make use of this scheme even if I could afford it!!
AlanC37
Posted by AlanC37@teranews.com on January 16, 2009, 11:05 am
>>
>> > If you would like to pay through the nose to construct and operate a
>> > pump storage facility, it is a possibility. But the economics of home
>> > wind are marginal, and by adding pumped storage, one would be paying a
>> > huge amount per kWh.
>> How so?
Some years ago I worked out the amounts of water involved in this sort of
scheme. The results surprised me a lot.
If you want 1 kW continuously and have a height difference of 30 ft and
need to store one week's worth of water you need two ponds with a depth of 4
feet and a surface area of about 1.37 acres. Each pond
must hold nearly 1.5 million Imperial gallons or 15 million pounds of water.
1 kW is not much use and is worth about 11 cents per hour here (Ontario).
My house used to use about 3.5 kW continuously throughout the year. My land
is less than 1 acre and the maximum height difference is about 6 ft. so I
cannot make use of this scheme even if I could afford it!!
AlanC37
Posted by Curly Surmudgeon on January 16, 2009, 1:24 pm
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:05:03 -0500, AlanC37@teranews.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>> > If you would like to pay through the nose to construct and operate a
>>> > pump storage facility, it is a possibility. But the economics of
>>> > home wind are marginal, and by adding pumped storage, one would be
>>> > paying a huge amount per kWh.
>>
>>> How so?
>
> Some years ago I worked out the amounts of water involved in this sort
> of
> scheme. The results surprised me a lot.
> If you want 1 kW continuously and have a height difference of 30 ft
> and
> need to store one week's worth of water you need two ponds with a depth
> of 4 feet and a surface area of about 1.37 acres. Each pond must hold
> nearly 1.5 million Imperial gallons or 15 million pounds of water.
> 1 kW is not much use and is worth about 11 cents per hour here
> (Ontario).
> My house used to use about 3.5 kW continuously throughout the year. My
> land is less than 1 acre and the maximum height difference is about 6
> ft. so I cannot make use of this scheme even if I could afford it!!
> AlanC37
Thanks, I'll scale those numbers for use. I can live comfortably on
about 5kw/day. That is 5.9% of your needs or a 4' pond with a 30' radius
but I have a rise of over 70' decreasing the size another 7/3rds to less
than a 20' radius.
I already have a larger pond in the proper location, thanks for working
out the basic numbers. Here in misc.survivalism we are speaking from
another slant, sustainable living in emergency situations. We do not
need to replicate the energy used when on-grid, but to survive in
comfort.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush. Like a Rock. Only Dumber.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by EskWIRED on January 16, 2009, 1:52 pm
> Here in misc.survivalism we are speaking from
> another slant, sustainable living in emergency situations. We do not
> need to replicate the energy used when on-grid, but to survive in
> comfort.
Actually the topic was your contention that storing electric power was no
problem at all, because pumped storage could be used economically and with
little maintenance.
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
Posted by Curly Surmudgeon on January 16, 2009, 2:34 pm
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:52:51 +0000, EskWIRED wrote:
>
>> Here in misc.survivalism we are speaking from another slant,
>> sustainable living in emergency situations. We do not need to
>> replicate the energy used when on-grid, but to survive in comfort.
>
> Actually the topic was your contention that storing electric power was
> no problem at all, because pumped storage could be used economically and
> with little maintenance.
Liar.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush. Like a Rock. Only Dumber.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> > If you would like to pay through the nose to construct and operate a
>> > pump storage facility, it is a possibility. But the economics of home
>> > wind are marginal, and by adding pumped storage, one would be paying a
>> > huge amount per kWh.
>> How so?