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Posted by Bruce Richmond on August 25, 2009, 5:09 am
 



Part of the reason you have been going in circles is the definitions
you keep coming up with.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Volatility

1. evaporating rapidly; passing off readily in the form of vapor:
Acetone is a volatile solvent.

Evaporation and boiling are not the same thing.

Comments about heat keep coming up and got me to wondering just how
much heat we are talking about.  At one point in our discussion you
mentioned using heat to change the viscosity and I assumed you meant
the viscosity of the final product after it had cooled down.  To do
that it would mean bringing the oil to a boil and keeping it there for
a while so the lighter hydrocarbons boiled off.  In another place you
mention pre-heating, but no mention was made of the temp or where this
figured into the process.  So I went to the web site to see just what
we were talking about.  What I found was more confusion about terms.

He wrote:

"So a hydrometer is a must.. Not using one you are risking your
engine.!!!!!!!

Please understand that the fuel thickness is important on how well the
engine injector can process it to make it into a clean burn. If its
too thick it will deposit huge amounts of carbon, and jello in the
crankcase.. Sticking rings,, valves, and sealing off the oil pump
suction screen.. "

Notice he is using the word "thickness" as opposed to "viscosity".
But he is checking it with a hydrometer, which checks specific
gravity, not viscosity or thickness.  Water has a higher specific
gravity than SVO but it is not as thick.  And he says nothing about
checking the volitility as a seperate test.

I notice he makes it very clear that you are to check the fuel density
at the temperture it will be used at.  Again I think what he is doing
is making sure there are enough lighter hydrocarbons from the gasoline
to produce the heat needed to fully burn the heavy hydrocarbons in the
oil.

The centrifuge is used because it can filter down to smaller sizes
without clogging up.  It may be taking some of the heavy waxes out but
is not otherwise altering the fuel other than cleaning it.


Maybe not directly, or perfectly, but they are related in this case.


How are you proposing to check the volatility?

Bruce



Posted by Curbie on August 25, 2009, 10:18 am
 



When talking to people, I been trying to use the same terms that they
use, if you want to use a different definition of something feel free,
but please include how its being measured; a bit like saying oh,
thats 18 degrees, 18 degrees F, C, K or what?

The dictionary.reference.com definition is an example of this
evaporating rapidly by what measurement? Google |"measure
evaporation" "fuel volatility"| and see if you can find anything
applicable, I did a bunch of phrase deviations with no luck, a term
without meaning is not descriptive.

I cant speak for anyone else, but I assumed boiling point was in
the context of vapor pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure

At the end of all this I will probably do some testing so by what
means these terms are being measured is important and the reason why I
keep defining them with measurements.

Volatility is a measure of the tendency of a substance to vaporize. As
measured by its vapor pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatility_ (chemistry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure

Viscosity is a measure of the resistance of a fluid which is being
deformed by either shear stress or extensional stress. In everyday
terms (and for fluids only), viscosity is "thickness." As measured by
its Kinematic viscosity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinematic_viscosity#Kinematic_viscosity

Now then there seems to be lots of discussion on the net about the
consequences of using SVO or WVO as fuel and compression-chamber
carbon-buildup and the different diesels out there (injector
pressures, and configurations) the causes seem to vary depending on
the diesel engine:
1) Viscosity, injectors not properly fogging the fuel properly.
2) Volatility, fuel not completely combusting.
3) Filtering, junk in the fuel.

So I was thinking that using a combination of solutions may cure the
compression-chamber carbon-buildup issue no matter my diesel
configuration:
1)    Adding only enough gasoline to SVO to achieve proper volatility so
as not to risk the diesel.
2)    Using the centrifuge to filter the mixture. (both oil crusher
ideas)
3)    Lastly, use as duel tank environment to preheat the fuel for any
add viscosity required.

So the idea requires (I think) doing a baseline test on manufactures
recommended fuel for volatility and viscosity so they can be matched
with the SVO, gas, and preheat.

Curbie

Posted by Bruce Richmond on August 26, 2009, 2:31 am
 


[snip]


Not trying to start an argument here but...   the definition of
volatility that you provided did not agree with what was said at the
web site.  On this page

http://www.oilcrusher.5u.com/whats_new.html

"My 3rd attempt was using sunflower oil cut 1 gallon gas to 10 gallons
sunflower oil. When the injector popped, there was a nice fog of
fuel,, and I could not find any micro strings of glycerin anywhere."

So the test was whether it would vaporize when sprayed out under
pressure and not leave micro strings.  Nothing in there about boiling
point.

As for viscosity, he doesn't use the word.  He wrote, "Please
understand that the fuel thickness is important on how well the engine
injector can process it to make it into a clean burn."  And he wrote,
"I'm just using unleaded gas to thin the sunflower oil to match the
thickness of #2 diesel so the injectors can do a good job of fogging
it into the engine.  I use a hydrometer calibrated from .820 to .
890."  A hydrometer measures specific gravity as compared to water.
So despite using the word thickness, which implies viscosity, what he
actually was checking was the density.

BTW, he also wrote, "This opened up the fact that yes, thinning the
oil is the first step of burning raw oil."  And you gave me shit about
using the word "thinner" ;)

As for standards and how things should be measured, here is a good
place to start your search.

http://www.globalsyntek.com/download/resources/ASTM_D975_TEST.pdf


I think you are putting your diesel at risk to some extent any time
you run it on fuel other than what it was built to run on.  If I was
going to play around with this I would want to have a backup for
whatever engine I was using it in.  Best choice would be a single
cylinder stationary engine that you could pull the head off frequently
to check for carbon buildup.

I don't think this is a total scam, but I do notice he is selling
kits, and I'd be skeptical about his claims of added power and
improved efficiency.  Should be able to test that without buying a
press by buying a few gallons of sunflower oil and mixing it.  Or
maybe buy some processed oil from him so there is no question
everything got done correctly.

Bruce

Posted by Curbie on August 26, 2009, 7:13 am
 


I view most discussions (excepting trolls) as an opportunity to learn
something, a different perspective on things, I dont mind a few
circles as long as I learn something by the time I break out of orbit,
and I have learned a lot.

I saw that kits page and I dont why it did register, I to start
getting more sleep, but the details are just out there for free and
not tied to the purchase of his kits, so Im still not smelling scam,
but good catch anyway, profits have been known to shade the truth.

Thanks for ASTM doc link, and your right OilCrusher.com doesnt
mention a word about viscosity, or boiling point, or volatility, but
the ASTM doc mentioned and defined all three without a mention of
hydrometers or specific gravity. Both certainly look at fuel
attributes differently.

I know his is position is all well with a diesel if he gets good
fogging at the injectors, but straight gasoline would produce good
injector fogging but that wouldnt be good for the engine, there seems
to be a combination of attributes needed for proper combustion.

What all this has been leading up to is not only postponing buying an
oil press to begin with, but also the diesel. The question becomes
what can I learn from testing regular diesel fuel vs. oil crushers
home-made fuel that could be useful in the deciding whether or not go
with an oil crusher type fuel plan?

Using regular diesel fuel to set benchmarks to test the SVO-gas with,
anyway thats the idea Im pondering and this idea will cost next to
nothing relative to buying of press and diesel for testing. I have no
clue whether this type of testing would green or red light the SVO-gas
plan, but the cost of the testing is small enough to consider even if
the results didnt lead to a green or red light.

Thanks for all your time and help, for me, looking at things from
someone elses point of view is very valuable, I always learn more.

Curbie

Posted by Curbie on August 23, 2009, 6:05 pm
 

Bruce,


long

Is this cracking process that refineries use purely a chemical
process???

I know this question seems dumb, but it stems from reading this
http://www.oilcrusher.5u.com/  site where the inventor uses a
centrifuge to mix/filter his SVO-gas and I'm wondering if this
centrifuge step could also be "cracking" hydrocarbon chains in the
SVO???

Thanks,

Curbie

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