Posted by duh on April 11, 2007, 11:39 pm
I'm looking for information on inverters adequate for whole home use,
like with a battery storage unit. I'd like to see conversion
efficiencies both ways, AC to DC, and DC to AC.
I've tried searching the web, but just find advertisements mostly, and
efficiencies are not mentioned usually.
Anyone know the cost/kwh for lithium ion batteries? Big'uns.
Posted by beemerwacker on April 12, 2007, 6:10 am
> I'm looking for information on inverters adequate for whole home use,
> like with a battery storage unit. I'd like to see conversion
> efficiencies both ways, AC to DC, and DC to AC.
> I've tried searching the web, but just find advertisements mostly, and
> efficiencies are not mentioned usually.
> Anyone know the cost/kwh for lithium ion batteries? Big'uns.
While it doesn't address it directly, the references section should
help you find inverter efficiencies.
http://search.nrel.gov/cs.html?charset=utf-8&url=http%3A//www.nrel.gov/docs/fy06osti/38771.pdf&qt=site%3Awww.nrel.gov+site%3Awww.sst.nrel.gov+site%3Arredc.nrel.gov+ ||+inverter&col=eren&n=2&la=en
Max
http://www.northernmichigansolar.com
Posted by Neon John on April 12, 2007, 8:46 am
>I'm looking for information on inverters adequate for whole home use,
>like with a battery storage unit. I'd like to see conversion
>efficiencies both ways, AC to DC, and DC to AC.
>I've tried searching the web, but just find advertisements mostly, and
>efficiencies are not mentioned usually.
I don't have any specific numbers handy but I imagine that if you
download the manuals for the candidate inverters, the info will be
there. Also might look around http://www.homepower.com magazine's web
site.
>Anyone know the cost/kwh for lithium ion batteries? Big'uns.
Just short of the national debt. And at the current state of the art,
given infinite money I'd still not want them because of the
fire/explosion hazard. I suggest dedicating a couple of hours and
work your way through this article:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t 9187
IMHO, Li chemistry just isn't ready for large scale prime time.
Probably never will be. There's no reason to put a high energy
density but fragile and finicky chemistry in a stationary battery. For
a stationary battery one wants a large low energy density battery that
is as rugged as the concrete pad it sits on. Ideally it should last a
large part of your lifetime.
If I wanted something better than PbA for home power use and had money
to burn, my choice would be SAFT wet cell NiCads. With minimal care,
wet NiCads are an heirloom purchase - will last your lifetime and your
kids'.
Example: I have a 28 volt aircraft starter pack of Korean War vintage.
It's still as good as they day it was made. Same capacity and same
low internal impedance. I've changed the KOH electrolyte about every
10 years (CO2 from the air gradually neutralizes it) but other than
that, keep it either fully charged or fully discharged with a short
across the terminals.
I mention SAFT because they're the only ones I have any experience
with. Others are probably as good.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
All great things are simple and many can be expressed in single words:
Freedom, Justice, Honor, Duty, Mercy, Hope. -Churchill
Posted by duh on April 12, 2007, 9:49 am
Neon John wrote:
>
>
>>I'm looking for information on inverters adequate for whole home use,
>>like with a battery storage unit. I'd like to see conversion
>>efficiencies both ways, AC to DC, and DC to AC.
>>
>>I've tried searching the web, but just find advertisements mostly, and
>>efficiencies are not mentioned usually.
>
>
> I don't have any specific numbers handy but I imagine that if you
> download the manuals for the candidate inverters, the info will be
> there. Also might look around http://www.homepower.com magazine's web
> site.
>
>
>>Anyone know the cost/kwh for lithium ion batteries? Big'uns.
>
>
> Just short of the national debt. And at the current state of the art,
> given infinite money I'd still not want them because of the
> fire/explosion hazard. I suggest dedicating a couple of hours and
> work your way through this article:
>
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t 9187
>
> IMHO, Li chemistry just isn't ready for large scale prime time.
> Probably never will be. There's no reason to put a high energy
> density but fragile and finicky chemistry in a stationary battery. For
> a stationary battery one wants a large low energy density battery that
> is as rugged as the concrete pad it sits on. Ideally it should last a
> large part of your lifetime.
>
> If I wanted something better than PbA for home power use and had money
> to burn, my choice would be SAFT wet cell NiCads. With minimal care,
> wet NiCads are an heirloom purchase - will last your lifetime and your
> kids'.
>
> Example: I have a 28 volt aircraft starter pack of Korean War vintage.
> It's still as good as they day it was made. Same capacity and same
> low internal impedance. I've changed the KOH electrolyte about every
> 10 years (CO2 from the air gradually neutralizes it) but other than
> that, keep it either fully charged or fully discharged with a short
> across the terminals.
>
> I mention SAFT because they're the only ones I have any experience
> with. Others are probably as good.
Actually, I'm trying to figure out the economics for this idea of
plug-in hybrid cars being used to power the household in times of
outage, or high electricity rates. People are touting the idea, but NO
ONE is doing the math. Probably on purpose. So, it would be the car
batteries I'm looking to price.
Posted by Arnold Walker on April 12, 2007, 2:44 pm
> Neon John wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm looking for information on inverters adequate for whole home use,
>>>like with a battery storage unit. I'd like to see conversion
>>>efficiencies both ways, AC to DC, and DC to AC.
>>>
>>>I've tried searching the web, but just find advertisements mostly, and
>>>efficiencies are not mentioned usually.
>>
>>
>> I don't have any specific numbers handy but I imagine that if you
>> download the manuals for the candidate inverters, the info will be
>> there. Also might look around http://www.homepower.com magazine's web
>> site.
>>
>>
>>>Anyone know the cost/kwh for lithium ion batteries? Big'uns.
>>
>>
>> Just short of the national debt. And at the current state of the art,
>> given infinite money I'd still not want them because of the
>> fire/explosion hazard. I suggest dedicating a couple of hours and
>> work your way through this article:
>>
>> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t 9187
>>
>> IMHO, Li chemistry just isn't ready for large scale prime time.
>> Probably never will be. There's no reason to put a high energy
>> density but fragile and finicky chemistry in a stationary battery. For
>> a stationary battery one wants a large low energy density battery that
>> is as rugged as the concrete pad it sits on. Ideally it should last a
>> large part of your lifetime.
>>
>> If I wanted something better than PbA for home power use and had money
>> to burn, my choice would be SAFT wet cell NiCads. With minimal care,
>> wet NiCads are an heirloom purchase - will last your lifetime and your
>> kids'. Example: I have a 28 volt aircraft starter pack of Korean War
>> vintage.
>> It's still as good as they day it was made. Same capacity and same
>> low internal impedance. I've changed the KOH electrolyte about every
>> 10 years (CO2 from the air gradually neutralizes it) but other than
>> that, keep it either fully charged or fully discharged with a short
>> across the terminals.
>>
>> I mention SAFT because they're the only ones I have any experience
>> with. Others are probably as good.
> Actually, I'm trying to figure out the economics for this idea of plug-in
> hybrid cars being used to power the household in times of outage, or high
> electricity rates. People are touting the idea, but NO ONE is doing the
> math. Probably on purpose. So, it would be the car batteries I'm looking
> to price.
The only way an electric car can supply the house and itself with
electricity is
that it a beta voltaic or fuel cell.
And beta voltaic gets more power out the hydrogen(in the form of trituim
gas) with less heat than fuel cell.
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> like with a battery storage unit. I'd like to see conversion
> efficiencies both ways, AC to DC, and DC to AC.
> I've tried searching the web, but just find advertisements mostly, and
> efficiencies are not mentioned usually.
> Anyone know the cost/kwh for lithium ion batteries? Big'uns.