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Is any of this even cost effective yet? - Page 34

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Posted by hubops on December 20, 2010, 10:10 pm
 



 Peak demand right now is  around  5:30 - 6:30  pm  - it's dark.
No solar power -  so the grid & distribution must still be built
to handle the delivery of the main source generation.
... summer air cond. peaks will be assisted by solar -
somewhat.  But - all the micro-FIT solar that I see going up
are out in the rural areas -  far from our huge urban
air-conditioned malls and towers.
  .. likewise the wind farms  -  not built anywhere near
the big industrial or urban loads.



OFF - yes     ON - we wish




  Lots of expensive new technologies being developed.
  Vanadium-Redox  is one example.




Posted by Josepi on December 20, 2010, 11:27 pm
 
What you may not know is that (in Hydro One circles) the instantaneous loads
do not need to be worried about. In a pinch the grid companies will load a
transformer to 200% of it OFAF or ODAF rating for 24-48 hours. It takes a
quite a few hours at that overload to heat up 80,000 gallons of oil and
become a hazard to the transformer integrity. Such heat curves are commonly
exercised. Copper conductors regularly get used until a red glow is seen
from them. This doesn't work with aluminum's exponential resistance/heat
curves. This is why the system isn't as big problem in winter months. It has
more capacity and people do not A/C as much.

Your load peak time is a winter problem that doesn't bother the grid people.
It would be the late lunch A/C load that is the overheat problem when the
solar panels are producing well, typically and if they are not, wait a few
hours and the A/C load falls off in summer months and the factories shut
down.

The rotating storage drives are a common attempt at energy storage but they
have mostly become short term voltage sag control regulators due to lack of
real storage capacity. People will learn to go without energy for a few hour
before wanting those high rates needed.


 Peak demand right now is  around  5:30 - 6:30  pm  - it's dark.
No solar power -  so the grid & distribution must still be built
to handle the delivery of the main source generation.
... summer air cond. peaks will be assisted by solar -
somewhat.  But - all the micro-FIT solar that I see going up
are out in the rural areas -  far from our huge urban
air-conditioned malls and towers.
  .. likewise the wind farms  -  not built anywhere near
the big industrial or urban loads.





Posted by x on December 20, 2010, 8:43 pm
 

That would come as a huge surprise to the captain of my old nuclear
submarine, who had no problem ringing up any bell that pleased him at
the moment.

Vaughn

Posted by Josepi on December 20, 2010, 11:29 pm
 That would be an interesting feat. When the sub stops the engines nuclear
reactors are shut down or are they just charging the huge batteries that
smooth out the loading to the nukes?


That would come as a huge surprise to the captain of my old nuclear
submarine, who had no problem ringing up any bell that pleased him at
the moment.

Vaughn


Nuclear energy cannot handle short term loading




Posted by x on December 24, 2010, 4:28 am
 
It's really no "feat" at all.  The problem is that you are posting
about something you are apparently ignorant about.  Water moderated
nuclear reactors actually can change power level quite rapidly, and do
it with little or no rod movement.    Commercial reactors are in fact
normally ran at full power, but that's not because the have any big
problem changing power level,  It's actually because their fuel is
comparably cheap.

A reactor that was incapable of quickly reducing it's power level
would be unacceptably dangerous to operate because it would destroy
itself if it lost its load.

Vaughn

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