Posted by Morris Dovey on October 11, 2014, 12:27 am
On 10/10/14 7:03 PM, mike wrote:
> IF it works, it would be working all over the world, even in your garage.
> That leaves the remaining option.
Kinda like the LHC, eh? :-)
> I'm wishful, but not convinced.
That’s probably the healthiest attitude for all non-participants.
--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
Posted by Jim Wilkins on October 11, 2014, 10:40 am
> On 10/10/14 7:03 PM, mike wrote:
>
>> IF it works, it would be working all over the world, even in your
>> garage.
>> That leaves the remaining option.
>
> Kinda like the LHC, eh? :-)
>
>> I'm wishful, but not convinced.
>
> That?s probably the healthiest attitude for all non-participants.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
>
Faith, hope and charity (funding) are to be encouraged from investors
(BTDT) but have no place in the lab. We would not have made useful
progress if we deceived ourselves.
-jsw
Posted by Morris Dovey on October 11, 2014, 3:46 pm
On 10/11/14 5:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> On 10/10/14 7:03 PM, mike wrote:
>>
>>> IF it works, it would be working all over the world, even in your
>>> garage.
>>> That leaves the remaining option.
>>
>> Kinda like the LHC, eh? :-)
>>
>>> I'm wishful, but not convinced.
>>
>> That’s probably the healthiest attitude for all non-participants.
>>
>> --
>> Morris Dovey
>> http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
>>
>
> Faith, hope and charity (funding) are to be encouraged from investors
> (BTDT) but have no place in the lab. We would not have made useful
> progress if we deceived ourselves.
> -jsw
Yes, we generally expect others to be like ourselves.
> “And there it is, they estimated the loss to smoke (convection) and
> mirrors (radiation). For a credible test there would have been NO such
> uncontrolled loss, all the heat produced would have gone into a
> measurable temperature rise in a measurable weight of liquid coolant.”
I’m still curious about this recommendation – in your garage-lab, with a
similarly (un)funded experiment, what liquid coolant would you use to so
capture all the heat from a 1400˚C / 2552˚F reactor for a “credible”
32-day test?
Here’s what the rest of us are stuck with:
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
Posted by Jim Wilkins on October 11, 2014, 8:21 pm
> On 10/11/14 5:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> On 10/10/14 7:03 PM, mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> IF it works, it would be working all over the world, even in your
>>>> garage.
>>>> That leaves the remaining option.
>>>
>>> Kinda like the LHC, eh? :-)
>>>
>>>> I'm wishful, but not convinced.
>>>
>>> That's probably the healthiest attitude for all non-participants.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Morris Dovey
>>> http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
>>>
>>
>> Faith, hope and charity (funding) are to be encouraged from
>> investors
>> (BTDT) but have no place in the lab. We would not have made useful
>> progress if we deceived ourselves.
>> -jsw
>
> Yes, we generally expect others to be like ourselves.
>
>> "And there it is, they estimated the loss to smoke (convection) and
>> mirrors (radiation). For a credible test there would have been NO
>> such
>> uncontrolled loss, all the heat produced would have gone into a
>> measurable temperature rise in a measurable weight of liquid
>> coolant."
>
> I'm still curious about this recommendation - in your garage-lab,
> with a similarly (un)funded experiment, what liquid coolant would
> you use to so capture all the heat from a 1400?C / 2552?F reactor
> for a "credible" 32-day test?
>
> Here's what the rest of us are stuck with:
>
> Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
Visit a Maker lab and see how sophisticated some people's home
experimenting can be. High-tech surplus is cheap but you need the
knowledge to be able to recognise the good stuff.
Molten beer can aluminum or table salt would do for coolant, IF you
make the chamber from a metal that can hold pressure at that
jet-engine-turbine temperature, or separate the heat from the
pressure.
http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleIDw36
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor
"The LS-VHTR has many attractive features, including: the ability to
work at very high temperatures (the boiling point of most molten salts
being considered are >1400 ?C); ..."
Indium melts at only 156.6C and boils way up at 2072C.
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
For a low-budget home experiment you'd likely be limited to 316L
stainless for the pressure vessel, with carbon fiber insulation inside
it and a silicon carbide reaction vessel. My 316L is scrap plumbing
from a brewery, my carbon fiber came from a vacuum furnace maker's
junk bin and foundry suppliers have silicon carbide, though I went
with clay-graphite.
http://www.mgstevens.com/
Carbon fiber conducts electricity so you'd need Kaowool etc around the
Kanthal electric heaters.
http://www.kanthal.com/
1400C is a little too high for inexpensive Type K thermocouples, which
top out at 1250C for long-term use, though they survive being fused
together with an acetylene torch to form the junction without scaling
very much.
http://www.omega.com/pptst/XC.html
http://www.omega.com/pptst/SHX.html
http://www.omega.com/pptst/XTA-W5R26.html
I don't recall 1400C being part of the spec when you wanted a reaction
vessel built. I personally have nothing better than Titanium and
Inconel 600 in my collection anyway.
http://www.hpalloy.com/Alloys/descriptions/INCONEL600.html
-jsw
Posted by Morris Dovey on October 11, 2014, 9:31 pm
On 10/11/14 3:21 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> I don't recall 1400C being part of the spec when you wanted a reaction
> vessel built. I personally have nothing better than Titanium and
> Inconel 600 in my collection anyway.
> http://www.hpalloy.com/Alloys/descriptions/INCONEL600.html
>
> -jsw
It’s still not. My interest has been in the neighborhood of 400˚C, and
in verifying that the reaction can be controlled and self-sustaining.
I have no interest in commercializing/licensing these things and have
turned down (with sincere thanks) the only offer of financial help
received ($00 from a Czech software developer).
My only interest is in having an adequate heat source to power a
no-moving-parts generator – and the plan is to publish everything needed
to produce a tiny 5-10 kW generator so that anyone anywhere will be able
to make/buy/sell/use them.
If/when I get there, I probably won’t bother with measuring the thermal
output because the only thing that’ll matter to anyone is that it’s
adequate.
At the moment, it’s the generator that’s looking difficult – but that’s
only because my studies were directed elsewhere. :-)
--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
> That leaves the remaining option.