Hybrid Car – More Fun with Less Gas

Learning the difference - Page 3

register ::  Login Password  :: Lost Password?
Posted by z on June 16, 2007, 3:02 am

Some people have no choice.  I am probably 10 miles from the nearest
power line and i'm not loaded with cash to drop 10k+ on solar.  I'm
adding to my system as I can afford to do so, and each addition lets me
run more stuff.  Its easy to say 'build a perfect system first' but holy
crap.. spendy.  I make my own panels from cells and add better/more
batteries as I can.

The real key is the hydro-electric setup hopefully going live once the
rains start after this summer.  Then we'll have enough juice to run
anything!  Screw solar in the winter man.


Posted by Todd on June 15, 2007, 3:14 pm

batteries are as good as

power systems are

parallel strings of

And just what principle are you claiming here?

Why not? Just ask them what their light bill is or take a range of
light bills (say from $00/mo to $00/mo by $00 increments) and show
the PV system cost. You can figure what a PV system would need to be
to supply the same demand.

You need to add one more thing to your list of proponent traits:

ARROGANT SELF-CLAIMED EXPERT AVOIDER. That's the person who wants to
tell you how watches are made before he can tell you he doesn't know
what time it is because you haven't told him enough about your need to

how much, at the very

and post that number.

number into it. And

you want to run and use

many panels and batteries


Or you could just say "I just did one for a guy who seemed pretty
average to me. He had an 1800sf house in eastern Oregon and it cost
$..... Next question?"

Posted by merlin-7 on June 16, 2007, 12:46 am

George means well....
 He just has a problem with people just starting out in solar.

 The way I look at it is.... get a hF 45 watt kit an optima deep cycle
(yellow top) a 4 amp charge controller and a small inverter.
 If you do that...you will learn really quick as to what is involved in
larger solar systems without expending a lot of cash.
 I ran my 2 meter ham radio and a 5 watt cfl on the above system for 6
months befor I expanded the system. It worked great.
 You will learn more by hands on than by anybody telling you what you should
 My 2 cents

of batteries are as good as

as home power systems are

of parallel strings of

must ask how much, at the very

day and post that number.

put your number into it. And

everything you want to run and use

how many panels and batteries

some prices.

Posted by wmbjkREMOVE on June 16, 2007, 2:14 pm


When he first arrived in the group I thought he was a well-meaning
boob. I even emailed another poster asking him not to mock George
quite so much. But after watching him repeatedly write wild
exaggerations and outright lies about knowledgeable posters who'd
corrected his frequent and blatant errors, I came to the conclusion
that he'd washed out of his little solar biz for very good reason. The
course he took couldn't make up for the lack of experience and
critical thinking, which is why even after 20 years he's still limited
to answering the most basic questions and posting the same elementary
stuff over and over - info that one can read on any web site without
it being contaminated with goofy criticisms.

He has a problem with *everyone* who refuses to sign on to his tunnel
vision opinions. Doesn't matter if you're trying to charge some AAAs
or if you're one of the biggest solar outfits in the US. If you
correct George you'll get Ghioed until you shut up, which is as close
as he comes to accomplishment.

I think that's true more often than not. For example, I've talked to a
couple of guys in the last year who pretty much refuse to do any math
no matter how much I encourage them. They both insist that their
personal experience will trump any planning, and they're mostly right.
They both have 48V Outback inverters and MX60s. So their systems are
easily expanded except for batteries which worse case can be sold and

I've done it both ways - I did a lot of measuring and estimating
before moving off-grid or spending any money. But on the wind side I
bought a small turbine to try before investing in a tower. Right now I
have a new project in the works (for a friend) - a 24' tall,
free-standing tower than can hoist a ton and be packed in to remote
locations. There are several ways it could be done, but I think I'm
going to spend a day doing the initial work on the most instinctive
approach and then seen if I like it. I'm pretty sure the days labor
will get me farther along than trying to think of the all the pros and
cons of every alternative.


Posted by philkryder on June 16, 2007, 4:26 pm

One of the reasons  for being reluctant to make precise measurements
and calculations is that "thing happen."

As someone said, "prediction is terribly difficult, ESPECIALLY about
the FUTURE."

I want to have a system that is easily expandable, because operations
can change.

With a grid-tie system, one can let the grid carry extra load for "a

With a generator system, FUEL costs dominate the long term costs
rather than CAPITAL costs. Therefore the system is easily scaled by
buying a new generator.

But consider what I must do with the series batteries that George

I must "sell them all and get new ones all of which are the SAME
Is it any wonder that folks are reluctant to jump in with both feet?
Is it any wonder that folks want to start small?

The problem is not the "error bars" on measurement or calculation.
The problem is the error bars on predicting the FUTURE.

And the  massive size of each individual step in larger systems.

Of course, I really don't know.
I'm just inferring this from reading the posts and my own experience
with the past - which in my life was once the  FUTURE.


This Thread
Bookmark this thread:
  • Subject
  • Author
  • Date
  ---> Re: Learning the difference clare at snyder.on.ca06-16-2007
please rate this thread