Posted by user on August 12, 2009, 6:16 pm
vaughn wrote:
>> According to Toyota the cost for batteries is $,299 for the 2000-2003
>> model years and $,588 for the 2004-2008. Hardly excessive when compared
>> to standard components or repairs. It can costs over $000.00 to repair
>> the damage of a broken timing chain in many standard cars.
>
>
> That is an invalid comparison; a worn out battery to a BROKEN timing belt.
Timing Chain mate, not timing belt. Both are a result or wear & tear,
battery and timing chain.
> These days, a timing belt is not expected to break, but their replacement is
> typically part of the maintenance schedule..
But they do, and often before maintenance schedules, mine was fried on
my Saturn 30,000k before suggested replacement. Had my power steering
pump not gone south I never would have noticed.
So let's look at expected
> maintenance cost for a timing belt. On the Honda Civic that I recently
> sold, it was (as I recall) replace the timing belt at 100,000 miles or 7
> years. You should really do the water pump at the same time. The bill will
> be about $,000. That should be the largest single scheduled repair in the
> lifetime of the car, and it amounts to under $50/year.
You've never had a timing chain/belt break have you? When they go they
often take a chunk of the engine with them.
>
> What will be the annual cost of maintaining a usable battery in a Volt?
> They won't tell us!
>
> Vaughn
>
>
If they are anything like a prius battery , just about zilch.
Posted by Bruce Richmond on August 12, 2009, 6:29 pm
wrote:
> > According to Toyota the cost for batteries is $,299 for the 2000-2003
> > model years and $,588 for the 2004-2008. Hardly excessive when compared
> > to standard components or repairs. It can costs over $000.00 to repair
> > the damage of a broken timing chain in many standard cars.
> That is an invalid comparison; a worn out battery to a BROKEN timing belt.
You present a good argument below except he wrote "chain" not "belt".
It is known that people neglect routine maintainece, so engines with
timing belts are almost always designed to be non-interference
engines. That means reguardless of the position of the camshaft when
the belt breaks there is no way the piston can hit the valves.
Replace the belt (about $0 and 5 hrs labor) and you're back on the
road. I timing chain OTOH is never expected to break. The car in my
driveway has 220,000 miles on the original timing chain and I have no
doubts that it will last as long as I own the car. Because of this
such engines are often designed as interference engines. So should
the timing chain break (it could happen, but I have never seen one) it
would bend valves, possibly damage the head, piston and maybe even the
cylinder wall. IOW you might need a new engine.
So likelyhood of anyone having to spend $000 to fix the timing chain
damage is a whole lot less likely than needing to replace a battery.
And since we are talking about an older car here, if a timing chain
did break any normal person would get a replacement engine from a
salvage yard and do the job much cheaper.
> These days, a timing belt is not expected to break, but their replacement is
> typically part of the maintenance schedule.. So let's look at expected
> maintenance cost for a timing belt. On the Honda Civic that I recently
> sold, it was (as I recall) replace the timing belt at 100,000 miles or 7
> years. You should really do the water pump at the same time. The bill will
> be about $,000. That should be the largest single scheduled repair in the
> lifetime of the car, and it amounts to under $50/year.
> What will be the annual cost of maintaining a usable battery in a Volt?
> They won't tell us!
> Vaughn
Posted by vaughn on August 12, 2009, 6:39 pm
>> That is an invalid comparison; a worn out battery to a BROKEN timing
>> belt.
>You present a good argument below except he wrote "chain" not "belt".
OOPS! Good catch. As you pointed out though, comparing the *certain*
degradation of a battery to the *unlikely* breakage of a timing chain is
still not valid.
Vaughn
Posted by user on August 12, 2009, 7:17 pm
Bruce Richmond wrote:
> wrote:
>>
>>> According to Toyota the cost for batteries is $,299 for the 2000-2003
>>> model years and $,588 for the 2004-2008. Hardly excessive when compared
>>> to standard components or repairs. It can costs over $000.00 to repair
>>> the damage of a broken timing chain in many standard cars.
>> That is an invalid comparison; a worn out battery to a BROKEN timing belt.
>
> You present a good argument below except he wrote "chain" not "belt".
> It is known that people neglect routine maintainece, so engines with
> timing belts are almost always designed to be non-interference
> engines.
This is not the case, and should never be assumed that because it has a
belt it is not an interference setup.
http://alignmentandbrakesplus.com/Timing.htm
http://www.galsonauto.com/mc/timebelts.html
That means reguardless of the position of the camshaft when
> the belt breaks there is no way the piston can hit the valves.
> Replace the belt (about $0 and 5 hrs labor) and you're back on the
> road. I timing chain OTOH is never expected to break. The car in my
> driveway has 220,000 miles on the original timing chain and I have no
> doubts that it will last as long as I own the car. Because of this
> such engines are often designed as interference engines. So should
> the timing chain break (it could happen, but I have never seen one) it
> would bend valves, possibly damage the head, piston and maybe even the
> cylinder wall. IOW you might need a new engine.
>
> So likelyhood of anyone having to spend $000 to fix the timing chain
> damage is a whole lot less likely than needing to replace a battery.
> And since we are talking about an older car here, if a timing chain
> did break any normal person would get a replacement engine from a
> salvage yard and do the job much cheaper.
>
>> These days, a timing belt is not expected to break, but their replacement is
>> typically part of the maintenance schedule.. So let's look at expected
>> maintenance cost for a timing belt. On the Honda Civic that I recently
>> sold, it was (as I recall) replace the timing belt at 100,000 miles or 7
>> years. You should really do the water pump at the same time. The bill will
>> be about $,000. That should be the largest single scheduled repair in the
>> lifetime of the car, and it amounts to under $50/year.
>>
>> What will be the annual cost of maintaining a usable battery in a Volt?
>> They won't tell us!
>>
>> Vaughn
>
Posted by Bruce Richmond on August 12, 2009, 10:44 pm
On Aug 12, 3:17pm, u...@domain.invalid wrote:
> Bruce Richmond wrote:
> > wrote:
> >>> According to Toyota the cost for batteries is $,299 for the 2000-2003
> >>> model years and $,588 for the 2004-2008. Hardly excessive when compared
> >>> to standard components or repairs. It can costs over $000.00 to repair
> >>> the damage of a broken timing chain in many standard cars.
> >> That is an invalid comparison; a worn out battery to a BROKEN timing belt.
> > You present a good argument below except he wrote "chain" not "belt".
> > It is known that people neglect routine maintainece, so engines with
> > timing belts are almost always designed to be non-interference
> > engines.
> This is not the case, and should never be assumed that because it has a
> belt it is not an interference setup.
> http://alignmentandbrakesplus.com/Timing.htmhttp://www.galsonauto.com/mc/timebelts.html
I stand corrected. Guess I have just been lucky :) One of the
engines I lost a belt on is listed as an interference engine but it
still ran fine after replacing the belt.
> > That means reguardless of the position of the camshaft when
> > the belt breaks there is no way the piston can hit the valves.
> > Replace the belt (about $0 and 5 hrs labor) and you're back on the
> > road. I timing chain OTOH is never expected to break. The car in my
> > driveway has 220,000 miles on the original timing chain and I have no
> > doubts that it will last as long as I own the car. Because of this
> > such engines are often designed as interference engines. So should
> > the timing chain break (it could happen, but I have never seen one) it
> > would bend valves, possibly damage the head, piston and maybe even the
> > cylinder wall. IOW you might need a new engine.
> > So likelyhood of anyone having to spend $000 to fix the timing chain
> > damage is a whole lot less likely than needing to replace a battery.
> > And since we are talking about an older car here, if a timing chain
> > did break any normal person would get a replacement engine from a
> > salvage yard and do the job much cheaper.
> >> These days, a timing belt is not expected to break, but their replacement is
> >> typically part of the maintenance schedule.. So let's look at expected
> >> maintenance cost for a timing belt. On the Honda Civic that I recently
> >> sold, it was (as I recall) replace the timing belt at 100,000 miles or 7
> >> years. You should really do the water pump at the same time. The bill will
> >> be about $,000. That should be the largest single scheduled repair in the
> >> lifetime of the car, and it amounts to under $50/year.
> >> What will be the annual cost of maintaining a usable battery in a Volt?
> >> They won't tell us!
> >> Vaughn- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
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>> model years and $,588 for the 2004-2008. Hardly excessive when compared
>> to standard components or repairs. It can costs over $000.00 to repair
>> the damage of a broken timing chain in many standard cars.
>
>
> That is an invalid comparison; a worn out battery to a BROKEN timing belt.