Posted by mike on April 30, 2012, 9:18 pm
On 4/30/2012 1:21 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:
I just can't believe this stuff works.
It's such a GAME CHANGER that anybody with a working system should/could
provide a credible demonstration.
Put it in a black box in my garage with armed guards.
Power comes out in some form, heat, electricity, radiation.
Any idiot with a stopwatch, thermometer and a milk jug of water
can tell if it puts out more energy than known processes of the same
mass. We're talking about HUGE relative energy output.
Shouldn't be hard
to measure at all. Accuracy is irrelevant if it's huge.
All this obfuscation smells, but it don't quack.
Posted by Morris Dovey on April 30, 2012, 11:09 pm
On 4/30/12 4:18 PM, mike wrote:
If you're really all that impatient, why don't /you/ give it a try?
Agreed - but when it comes right down to it, only an idiot (or a
suicidal maniac) would do what you describe.
Duck soup: All you need is a 5" piece of 1" steel pipe with a
hydrogen-tight cap for each end. Drill and tap the pipe for a
hydrogen-tight fitting for attachment of a hydrogen supply line. Install
one of the caps, put an ounce and three quarters of filamentary nickel
nanopowder inside the pipe, and install the other end cap.
Cooking the duck: Remove all air and moisture from inside the pipe and
fill it with hydrogen at, say, 250 psi (I'd suggest disconnecting the
hydrogen supply when that's been done) - and heat the pipe to a uniform
200˚C with your homeowner-type propane torch. I wouldn't expect the
pressure to exceed 500 psi, but I don't have any experience on which to
base that expectation. Still, how much can a little increase in pressure
If all goes well, the pipe will stay hot for some number of hours
(perhaps 3-5) after you stopped applying heat. It may even continue to
get hotter in which case the pressure will continue to rise. (I hope
your pipe doesn't quack!)
If you'll send me a photo of your ready-to-go test reactor, I'll send
you a couple of ounces of nickel powder.
If you prefer that someone else do the work and take the risk in your
stead, then you'll just have to live with /their/ schedule, or lack
Posted by j on May 1, 2012, 12:57 am
On 4/30/2012 7:09 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:
I see this somewhat differently. It looks to me that it requires a
current flow. There are anodes and cathodes in all these that you see
Here is something from a dozen years ago:
As far as being a useful device, it depends on what for and how
efficient it is. A low COP is useful for heating, but not useful for
generating power. If the efficiency of your thermal engine/generator is
25%, you would need a COP of 4 to break even. And electricity is not a
cheap energy source. Figures I saw ran around a COP of 6 for the best
On the other hand, I think that you Morris, will make the most progress
of us all. I'm excited...
Posted by Morris Dovey on May 1, 2012, 5:37 am
On 4/30/12 7:57 PM, j wrote:
There appear to have been a whole train of "hints" along the way that
some kind of LENR is possible. The Arata and Zhang report would appear
to fall into that category - but, until Rossi, I didn't see anything
that looked as if it might be other than a lab curiosity.
The physics folks are now guessing that a Ni/H LENR /should/ be able to
produce something like 3,000,000 times as much energy as would be
produced by burning that same amount of hydrogen in an oxygen-rich
environment. I have no way of knowing whether that's true, but if it is
I think all discussions of COP become irrelevant.
Everyone needs at least a little excitement in their life; and I'm
flattered that you would say that - but I sincerely hope that, once the
real physics folks gain a little traction, my own efforts will fade to
From my perspective, the trial Mike wanted has already been done in
Italy. Rossi has not been as forthcoming as any of us would have liked,
but that's his choice, and his alone, to make.
It was pure coincidence that just as I needed a compact, high-output
heat source for testing a new solar generator design, Rossi announced to
the world that he had a new <drum roll, please> compact, high-output
Rossi has provided (sometimes unintentionally) a fairly interesting
trail of hints. Some of these have been explicit, and some have to do
with what he doesn't do. He said at one point that he had an explosion
at start-up and in all of his demonstrations that I've seen on video, he
connects up the hydrogen supply and brings the system up to pressure -
and then disconnects the hydrogen line before applying heat. If you've
been following his work, you may have noticed that the demonstrations
have been limited to about four and a half hours - which I'm guessing to
be the amount of time that initial charge of hydrogen lasts before the
system is (literally) out of gas.
I don't think Rossi would disconnect the hydrogen supply without having
good reason for doing so.
I may be reading too much into this, bit I'm not very enthusiastic about
having even a low-energy nuclear reactor explode right beside me. I'm
pretty sure that I can design (and maybe build) a combination control
and data acquisition system to eliminate the danger of an explosion and,
at the same time, acquire the most detailed reactor behavioral data yet.
I apologize for being a bit rough on Mike - I really don't think we can
yet do a safe garage test - and if it turns out that these things
actually can produce 3,000,000 times the energy of a small chemical
explosion, you'd taking some serious chances - and for what gain?
Posted by mike on May 1, 2012, 9:13 am
On 4/30/2012 10:37 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:
There's always an excuse to follow the previous excuse that follows.....
Ok, I'll grant you some slack on the risk. But the concept is the same.
You don't need a megawatt demonstration behind the curtain.
All you need is a small scale that continuously produces a LOT more
you can get from any known combustion process of the same mass.
It can be in a black box, but I gotta see all around it and measure
what goes in and out. You don't need to know anything about what's
going on inside the box.
But what do we get??? A HUGE pile of pipes and tanks. A test that
runs for a very short time with no oversight on the ins and outs.
And the big elephant in the room...that boxcar sized generator running
next to it.
If you had a credible demo, you'd have to hire an army to keep away
the investors with boxcars full of development cash.
This is a GAME CHANGER. Whoever makes it work will make a bazillion
dollars and possibly save the world. Statues will be erected.
Yet, we still got nothin' but excuses and futures.
I have this recurrent dream of the ghost of Stanley Meyers driving
his water-powered car in the free-energy parade with Rossi ridin' shotgun.
I hope it works.
I expect something like this will eventually work.
I wouldn't invest a dime in the current crop of people telling tall tales.
This testing whether it works is not rocket science. Any idiot can
do it. I'll supply the thermometer and the water. All you gotta
do is show up with the demo.
Convince me it works, and I'll break out that dime and 10e7 more of 'em.