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Posted by mpm on July 24, 2008, 9:25 pm
Forgot to mention, Kris.
No transcript. (that I know of).
Posted by JosephKK on July 22, 2008, 10:56 pm
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:21:54 +0000 (UTC), don@manx.misty.com (Don
Klipstein) wrote:
><BIG SNIP of previously quoted material to edit for space>
>>Ugh, and that nasty High Fructose Corn Syrup.
> Not that this is "health food", but I am easily "rubbed the wrong way"
>by anyone and everyone saying, implying, hinting, whatever that HFCS is
>outright poison but sucrose or even raw cane sugar or "brown sugar" is
>"wholesome" or something along those lines.
> Most "high fructose corn syrup" is HFCS-55, meaning sugar content
>breaking down to 55% fructose and the other 45% glucose.
> Latter are all generally 48-51% glucose 48-51% fructose as far as
>calorie content goes.
> Along with this, I see all-too-much the anti-carbers saying how carbs in
>general and glucose make people overeat by being remaining hungry by
>stimulating production of insulin, while also saying that fructose causes
>people to overeat due to being remaining hungry from lack of insulin
>production stimulus! That makes me think along lines of one having one's
>cake after eating it?
>> The older I get, the fewer
>>processed foods I eat, not so much because I don't like cereal or so on,
>>but there is so much HFCS in the vast majority of products now that
>>they're inedible to me - I don't know how poeple can stomach the stuff.
>>Even something as simple as a Kaiser roll is now nauseatingly sweet.
>>I've gotten to where I'm starting to even make my own bread, that's how
>>disgusting most of the commercial items have gotten. And obesity is
>>described as being "an epidemic" among even young children. The last
>>thing we need is ever-more HFCS in everything. And studies indicate that
>>it is worse than regular sugar, something to do with it being iether
>>unrecognized ro poorly-recognized by the hormones that signal the brain
>>we're satiated. Not to mention that the hidden sugar only contributes to
>>obesity and type-II diabetes. I mean, why the heck does something like
>>*sausage* "need' to have HFCS added?
> The low-carb advocates still advocate sausage! Not that I advocate
>sausage due to high calorie density, mostly from fat, and due to sausage
>usually having little other than fat and water!
> Not that I favor processed foods!
>> IMO, it'd be a blessing if that crap was turned into ethanol, because
>>that'd mean less of it would be going into food products.
>>
>>At least, that is my opinionated opinion ;)
> Certainly I think that if there was a way to put sausage (more
>realistically fats in general) usefully into a car's fuel tank as opposed
>to into human gigestion systems, then the world would be a better place!
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
Gosh Don, it is quick and easy to make your own. And it freezes well,
especially after cooking.
Posted by James Arthur on July 18, 2008, 3:05 pm Martin Brown wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
>> About a billion people on this planet get insufficient carbohydrates
>> to meet their body's needs. Burning food in SUVs and airplanes is
>> grotesque. One bushel of corn, 65 pounds, makes a couple of gallons of
>> ethanol. So refilling an Escalade could waste a half of a ton of food.
>
> I am in full agreement with you there. It also drives prices of grain
> up out of reach of the poorest.
>
> Only the power of the US corn lobby could ever have got this one off
> the ground.
No! It started as an environmentalist / sustainable /
alternative energy / anti-global-warming thing.
Al Gore invented it:
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OVP/speeches/farmj.html
"I was also proud to stand up for the ethanol tax exemption
when it was under attack in the Congress -- at one point,
supplying a tie-breaking vote in the Senate to save it. The
more we can make this home-grown fuel a successful,
widely-used product, the better-off our farmers and our
environment will be." --Al Gore, Speech, Dec. 1, 1998
In the 2000 edition of his book "Earth In The Balance":
"by tripling U.S. use of bioenergy and bioproducts
by 2010, we can keep millions of tons of greenhouse
gases out of the air...."
Cheers,
James Arthur
Posted by Martin Brown on July 18, 2008, 3:48 pm James Arthur wrote:
> Martin Brown wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote:
>
>>> About a billion people on this planet get insufficient carbohydrates
>>> to meet their body's needs. Burning food in SUVs and airplanes is
>>> grotesque. One bushel of corn, 65 pounds, makes a couple of gallons of
>>> ethanol. So refilling an Escalade could waste a half of a ton of food.
>>
>> I am in full agreement with you there. It also drives prices of grain
>> up out of reach of the poorest.
>>
>> Only the power of the US corn lobby could ever have got this one off
>> the ground.
>
> No! It started as an environmentalist / sustainable /
> alternative energy / anti-global-warming thing.
On the positive side they meant well, but on the negative side unless
you are using a crop with the same low inputs and ideal growing
conditions as sugar cane in Brazil the biofuel thing is a loser.
At least it is with present technology. That may change when we can turn
cellulose waste into bio fuels with GM designer fermentation.
But turning foodstuffs into SUV fuel when millions are starving is
obscene. It drives the price of grain up Gore was right about that.
>
> Al Gore invented it:
> http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OVP/speeches/farmj.html
>
> "I was also proud to stand up for the ethanol tax exemption
> when it was under attack in the Congress -- at one point,
> supplying a tie-breaking vote in the Senate to save it. The
> more we can make this home-grown fuel a successful,
> widely-used product, the better-off our farmers and our
> environment will be." --Al Gore, Speech, Dec. 1, 1998
>
> In the 2000 edition of his book "Earth In The Balance":
> "by tripling U.S. use of bioenergy and bioproducts
> by 2010, we can keep millions of tons of greenhouse
> gases out of the air...."
I am on record here as saying that Al Gore is a hypocrite from the
"don't do as I do, do as I say" school of leadership.
Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Posted by James Arthur on July 18, 2008, 5:10 pm Martin Brown wrote:
> James Arthur wrote:
>> Martin Brown wrote:
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>>> About a billion people on this planet get insufficient carbohydrates
>>>> to meet their body's needs. Burning food in SUVs and airplanes is
>>>> grotesque. One bushel of corn, 65 pounds, makes a couple of gallons of
>>>> ethanol. So refilling an Escalade could waste a half of a ton of food.
>>>
>>> I am in full agreement with you there. It also drives prices of grain
>>> up out of reach of the poorest.
>>>
>>> Only the power of the US corn lobby could ever have got this one off
>>> the ground.
>>
>> No! It started as an environmentalist / sustainable /
>> alternative energy / anti-global-warming thing.
[...]
>> Al Gore invented it:
[...]
>>
>> In the 2000 edition of his book "Earth In The Balance":
>> "by tripling U.S. use of bioenergy and bioproducts
>> by 2010, we can keep millions of tons of greenhouse
>> gases out of the air...."
>
> I am on record here as saying that Al Gore is a hypocrite from the
> "don't do as I do, do as I say" school of leadership.
Yes, noted. But Al Gore did this thing, not the farm lobby.
He's been shrieking for years that alternative energy is being
suppressed, isn't getting enough funding, is a critical
emergency for the planet, accusing his political opponents
of being complicit or responsible.
Al Gore wanted us to triple our use of biofuels, he pushed it,
and that's exactly what we've done, from 3e6 to 9e6 gallons of
ethanol per annum from then to now, mandated by Congress
per his vision, at his insistence and persistence.
Farm collectives across America have literally bet their farms
building ethanol plants based on the policies Al Gore
propounded, based on Al Gore's recommendations for saving
the planet.
Too bad he advocated so vociferously never having bothered
to do the math.
And, mark my words: this is a bubble (corn-based ethanol),
uneconomic, unsustainable, and many farmers will be ruined
when it bursts a few years on.
Not to mention inflation, shock to the economy, and the
calamity higher prices and scarcer food present to the
world's poor.
All because our Nobel prize-winning calamitologist Al Gore
skipped some basic arithmetic.
Fortunately everything else that Al Gore says is carefully
checked and true.
Best regards,
James Arthur
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>>Ugh, and that nasty High Fructose Corn Syrup.
> Not that this is "health food", but I am easily "rubbed the wrong way"
>by anyone and everyone saying, implying, hinting, whatever that HFCS is
>outright poison but sucrose or even raw cane sugar or "brown sugar" is
>"wholesome" or something along those lines.
> Most "high fructose corn syrup" is HFCS-55, meaning sugar content
>breaking down to 55% fructose and the other 45% glucose.
> Latter are all generally 48-51% glucose 48-51% fructose as far as
>calorie content goes.
> Along with this, I see all-too-much the anti-carbers saying how carbs in
>general and glucose make people overeat by being remaining hungry by
>stimulating production of insulin, while also saying that fructose causes
>people to overeat due to being remaining hungry from lack of insulin
>production stimulus! That makes me think along lines of one having one's
>cake after eating it?
>> The older I get, the fewer
>>processed foods I eat, not so much because I don't like cereal or so on,
>>but there is so much HFCS in the vast majority of products now that
>>they're inedible to me - I don't know how poeple can stomach the stuff.
>>Even something as simple as a Kaiser roll is now nauseatingly sweet.
>>I've gotten to where I'm starting to even make my own bread, that's how
>>disgusting most of the commercial items have gotten. And obesity is
>>described as being "an epidemic" among even young children. The last
>>thing we need is ever-more HFCS in everything. And studies indicate that
>>it is worse than regular sugar, something to do with it being iether
>>unrecognized ro poorly-recognized by the hormones that signal the brain
>>we're satiated. Not to mention that the hidden sugar only contributes to
>>obesity and type-II diabetes. I mean, why the heck does something like
>>*sausage* "need' to have HFCS added?
> The low-carb advocates still advocate sausage! Not that I advocate
>sausage due to high calorie density, mostly from fat, and due to sausage
>usually having little other than fat and water!
> Not that I favor processed foods!
>> IMO, it'd be a blessing if that crap was turned into ethanol, because
>>that'd mean less of it would be going into food products.
>>
>>At least, that is my opinionated opinion ;)
> Certainly I think that if there was a way to put sausage (more
>realistically fats in general) usefully into a car's fuel tank as opposed
>to into human gigestion systems, then the world would be a better place!
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)