Posted by *John* on May 28, 2006, 4:25 pm

Hello,

I am interested in determining what I would need to do to qualify a

photovotaic power system as a business expense, say on a 5 - 10 acre

farm, where corn is qrown to produce ethanol, and the power for

distillation, the business, and the home, is derived from solar panels.

The potential tax credits for the State and Fed, could total to 65% of

the total solar/distillery equipment costs , spread over 5 or more

years. I want to make sure this can be done legitimately, and am having

problems finding definitive information on this. Any help and / or

suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Have a Great Day,

John

Posted by *JoeSP* on May 29, 2006, 1:23 am

*> Hello,*

*> I am interested in determining what I would need to do to qualify a *

*> photovotaic power system as a business expense, say on a 5 - 10 acre farm, *

*> where corn is qrown to produce ethanol, and the power for distillation, *

*> the business, and the home, is derived from solar panels. The potential *

*> tax credits for the State and Fed, could total to 65% of the total *

*> solar/distillery equipment costs , spread over 5 or more years. I want to *

*> make sure this can be done legitimately, and am having problems finding *

*> definitive information on this. Any help and / or suggestions would be *

*> greatly appreciated.*

*> Have a Great Day,*

*> John*

Let's do the math, shall we?

Using info from:

http://hubbert.mines.edu/news/Pimentel_98-2.pdf

Let's see, 10 acres of corn should produce about 20-50 tons, depending on a

lot of factors, including your location and how much you spend on crop

inputs such as fertilizer and pesticides. Costs of growing corn are

typically at least 4 cents a pound, for a total production cost not less

than $000, for 50 tons.

To be generous, 50 tons of corn will yield about 500 gallons of ethanol,

which is equivalent to about 333 gallons of gasoline, which is about a

year's supply of fuel for an average car. One gallon of ethanol contains

about 75,000 BTUs of energy, which translates to about 22 kilowatt hours.

Since ethanol requires about 3 KWH per 4 KWH produced, the electrical

requirements for distillation are about 16.5 KWH per gallon of ethanol. To

distill that 500 gallons of ethanol that 10 acres of corn gives you, you

need about 8.25 megawatt hours (8250 KWH) of electrical power in total.

Of course, you won't be distilling all 500 gallons of ethanol in one hour,

but if you spread the job out to something like 6 months, running an average

of 8 hours a day (depending on sun availability), you have about 1500 hours

of sunshine to work with. Divide your 8250 KWH requirement by 1500 hours and

you will need about 5.5 kilowatts of power minimum for your array. Last

time I checked, a kilowatt of solar panels cost at least $000. This

translates to about a $0,000 array for a minimum requirement. Amortized

over 20 years would be about $500 a year.

I don't know what your distiller would cost, but you can't do much for less

than a $5,000 investment. Set up to do the entire distillation job over a

6-month period each year using solar power, it would have to be fairly

small. A well designed system should last 15 years.

Costs per year (before subsidies)

======================

Corn production cost: $000

Solar energy cost: $500

Distillation equipment: $000

_________

Total cost per yr: $500

Cost per gallon (500 total) = $.30.

Of course, each of these calculations is based on a best-case scenario for

each factor. In the real world, expect the cost per gallon to double or

triple at least.

Posted by *Pooh Bear* on May 29, 2006, 4:03 am

JoeSP wrote:

*> Let's see, 10 acres of corn should produce about 20-50 tons, depending on a*

*> lot of factors, including your location and how much you spend on crop*

*> inputs such as fertilizer and pesticides. Costs of growing corn are*

*> typically at least 4 cents a pound, for a total production cost not less*

*> than $000, for 50 tons.*

*> To be generous, 50 tons of corn will yield about 500 gallons of ethanol,*

If that were so, making ethanol fron corn would be a non-starter.

Graham

Posted by *John* on May 29, 2006, 3:54 pm

JoeSP wrote:

*> *

*>>Hello,*

*>>*

*>>I am interested in determining what I would need to do to qualify a *

*>>photovotaic power system as a business expense, say on a 5 - 10 acre farm, *

*>>where corn is qrown to produce ethanol, and the power for distillation, *

*>>the business, and the home, is derived from solar panels. The potential *

*>>tax credits for the State and Fed, could total to 65% of the total *

*>>solar/distillery equipment costs , spread over 5 or more years. I want to *

*>>make sure this can be done legitimately, and am having problems finding *

*>>definitive information on this. Any help and / or suggestions would be *

*>>greatly appreciated.*

*>>*

*>>Have a Great Day,*

*>>*

*>>John*

*> *

*> *

*> *

*> Let's do the math, shall we?*

*> *

*> Using info from:*

*> http://hubbert.mines.edu/news/Pimentel_98-2.pdf *

*> *

*> Let's see, 10 acres of corn should produce about 20-50 tons, depending on a *

*> lot of factors, including your location and how much you spend on crop *

*> inputs such as fertilizer and pesticides. Costs of growing corn are *

*> typically at least 4 cents a pound, for a total production cost not less *

*> than $000, for 50 tons.*

*> *

*> To be generous, 50 tons of corn will yield about 500 gallons of ethanol, *

*> which is equivalent to about 333 gallons of gasoline, which is about a *

*> year's supply of fuel for an average car. One gallon of ethanol contains *

*> about 75,000 BTUs of energy, which translates to about 22 kilowatt hours.*

*> *

*> Since ethanol requires about 3 KWH per 4 KWH produced, the electrical *

*> requirements for distillation are about 16.5 KWH per gallon of ethanol. To *

*> distill that 500 gallons of ethanol that 10 acres of corn gives you, you *

*> need about 8.25 megawatt hours (8250 KWH) of electrical power in total.*

*> *

*> Of course, you won't be distilling all 500 gallons of ethanol in one hour, *

*> but if you spread the job out to something like 6 months, running an average *

*> of 8 hours a day (depending on sun availability), you have about 1500 hours *

*> of sunshine to work with. Divide your 8250 KWH requirement by 1500 hours and *

*> you will need about 5.5 kilowatts of power minimum for your array. Last *

*> time I checked, a kilowatt of solar panels cost at least $000. This *

*> translates to about a $0,000 array for a minimum requirement. Amortized *

*> over 20 years would be about $500 a year.*

*> *

*> I don't know what your distiller would cost, but you can't do much for less *

*> than a $5,000 investment. Set up to do the entire distillation job over a *

*> 6-month period each year using solar power, it would have to be fairly *

*> small. A well designed system should last 15 years.*

*> *

*> Costs per year (before subsidies)*

*> ======================*

*> Corn production cost: $000*

*> Solar energy cost: $500*

*> Distillation equipment: $000*

*> _________*

*> Total cost per yr: $500*

*> *

*> Cost per gallon (500 total) = $.30.*

*> *

*> Of course, each of these calculations is based on a best-case scenario for *

*> each factor. In the real world, expect the cost per gallon to double or *

*> triple at least.*

*> *

*> *

*> *

Thank you for your information!

Looking forward to energy independence,

John

Posted by *Mike Swift* on May 29, 2006, 11:16 pm

wrote:

*> > Hello,*

*> >*

*> > I am interested in determining what I would need to do to qualify a *

*> > photovotaic power system as a business expense, say on a 5 - 10 acre farm, *

*> > where corn is qrown to produce ethanol, and the power for distillation, *

*> > the business, and the home, is derived from solar panels. The potential *

*> > tax credits for the State and Fed, could total to 65% of the total *

*> > solar/distillery equipment costs , spread over 5 or more years. I want to *

*> > make sure this can be done legitimately, and am having problems finding *

*> > definitive information on this. Any help and / or suggestions would be *

*> > greatly appreciated.*

*> >*

*> > Have a Great Day,*

*> >*

*> > John*

*> *

*> *

*> Let's do the math, shall we?*

*> *

*> Using info from:*

*> http://hubbert.mines.edu/news/Pimentel_98-2.pdf *

*> *

*> Let's see, 10 acres of corn should produce about 20-50 tons, depending on a *

*> lot of factors, including your location and how much you spend on crop *

*> inputs such as fertilizer and pesticides. Costs of growing corn are *

*> typically at least 4 cents a pound, for a total production cost not less *

*> than $000, for 50 tons.*

*> *

*> To be generous, 50 tons of corn will yield about 500 gallons of ethanol, *

*> which is equivalent to about 333 gallons of gasoline, which is about a *

*> year's supply of fuel for an average car. One gallon of ethanol contains *

*> about 75,000 BTUs of energy, which translates to about 22 kilowatt hours.*

*> *

*> Since ethanol requires about 3 KWH per 4 KWH produced, the electrical *

*> requirements for distillation are about 16.5 KWH per gallon of ethanol. To *

*> distill that 500 gallons of ethanol that 10 acres of corn gives you, you *

*> need about 8.25 megawatt hours (8250 KWH) of electrical power in total.*

*> *

*> Of course, you won't be distilling all 500 gallons of ethanol in one hour, *

*> but if you spread the job out to something like 6 months, running an average *

*> of 8 hours a day (depending on sun availability), you have about 1500 hours *

*> of sunshine to work with. Divide your 8250 KWH requirement by 1500 hours and *

*> you will need about 5.5 kilowatts of power minimum for your array. Last *

*> time I checked, a kilowatt of solar panels cost at least $000. This *

*> translates to about a $0,000 array for a minimum requirement. Amortized *

*> over 20 years would be about $500 a year.*

*> *

*> I don't know what your distiller would cost, but you can't do much for less *

*> than a $5,000 investment. Set up to do the entire distillation job over a *

*> 6-month period each year using solar power, it would have to be fairly *

*> small. A well designed system should last 15 years.*

*> *

*> Costs per year (before subsidies)*

*> ======================*

*> Corn production cost: $000*

*> Solar energy cost: $500*

*> Distillation equipment: $000*

*> _________*

*> Total cost per yr: $500*

*> *

*> Cost per gallon (500 total) = $.30.*

*> *

*> Of course, each of these calculations is based on a best-case scenario for *

*> each factor. In the real world, expect the cost per gallon to double or *

*> triple at least.*

Playing to the roll of Congresses intent you could reduce the cost of

your ethanol by doing several thing that the big boys are doing by

replacing that expensive solar system with coal fired boilers in the

distillation step. Another help would be to take the $.55/gallon,

subsidy, you know, tax the few rich to buy votes from the many people

working in the farming industries. This would help immensely in your

bottom line.

In adjusting your cost per gallon it should be compared to the gasoline

it is replacing. This would be $.30*500/333 or $.95. Coal would

reduce your distillation costs by at least two thirds. That would

require the $.95 per gallon of gasoline equivalent to be corrected by

$.95*5500/6500 or $.65 for its gasoline equivalent, however you may

also correct it for the free money your getting from rich taxpayers.

That would make it 1.65-(0.55*(500/333))=$.82.:)

Now we see how ethanol can be used to reduce smog, increase energy

independence, and insure the reelections of all those in Congress.

Just ignore that coal boiler behind the curtain, and the fact that to

be a significant oil replacement would require several times the total

farm-able land the U.S. has.

--

Mike Swift

Two things only the people anxiously desire, bread and circuses.

Decimus Junius Juvenalls

> Hello,> I am interested in determining what I would need to do to qualify a> photovotaic power system as a business expense, say on a 5 - 10 acre farm,> where corn is qrown to produce ethanol, and the power for distillation,> the business, and the home, is derived from solar panels. The potential> tax credits for the State and Fed, could total to 65% of the total> solar/distillery equipment costs , spread over 5 or more years. I want to> make sure this can be done legitimately, and am having problems finding> definitive information on this. Any help and / or suggestions would be> greatly appreciated.> Have a Great Day,> John