Posted by Vaughn on May 24, 2005, 6:26 am
> On Sat, 21 May 2005 01:13:35 GMT, "Vaughn"
> At this point in time, NO ONE knows for sure how to safely store the
> stuff long term.
Absolute political BS. The engineering solutions have long been worked
out.
Vaughn
>>>
>>
>
Posted by Reason on May 23, 2005, 2:58 pm
>> Hydrogen is fairly simple to manufacture, but the input of energy
>> required
>> far exceeds the return you would get. Mainly due to the mechanical and
>> thermal energy losses inherent in the present internal combustion engine
>> designs. Use of hydrogen fuel-cells to run electric motors has far
>> greater
>> efficiencies.
>> However, the problem still remains, as you stated, the energy needed for
>> the
>> hydrogen production has to come from somewhere. It is not just simply
>> plugging in your hydrogen generator into the wall socket. (that
>> electrical
>> energy has to be generated somehow also)
Yes, that "energy input" requirement to produce hydrogen looks like a
show-stopper for the hydrogen economy, but you have to remember that
sustainable energy means no free lunch. Pulling fossil fuels out of the
ground has been a "free lunch" for a long time, but we are very near the
point where the available world supply is being met or exceeded by world
demand, and sustainable options will have to be found. Not to mention the
political costs of buying oil from our enemies.
The best sustainable source of energy we know is the sun. The cleanest
known way to store and utilize that energy is with hydrogen. We should not
be comparing the costs of producing hydrogen against cheap oil. Those days
will soon be gone. Our best bet is to find cheaper ways to harness the
sun's energy, such as wind, wave or solar power, and to use those benefits
to provide affordable energy.
Posted by John P Bengi on May 23, 2005, 7:04 pm
When we get enough energy to waste, I am sure we will waste it on hydrogen.
Until then, let's use it wisely.
> >
> >> Hydrogen is fairly simple to manufacture, but the input of energy
> >> required
> >> far exceeds the return you would get. Mainly due to the mechanical and
> >> thermal energy losses inherent in the present internal combustion
engine
> >> designs. Use of hydrogen fuel-cells to run electric motors has far
> >> greater
> >> efficiencies.
> >> However, the problem still remains, as you stated, the energy needed
for
> >> the
> >> hydrogen production has to come from somewhere. It is not just simply
> >> plugging in your hydrogen generator into the wall socket. (that
> >> electrical
> >> energy has to be generated somehow also)
> Yes, that "energy input" requirement to produce hydrogen looks like a
> show-stopper for the hydrogen economy, but you have to remember that
> sustainable energy means no free lunch. Pulling fossil fuels out of the
> ground has been a "free lunch" for a long time, but we are very near the
> point where the available world supply is being met or exceeded by world
> demand, and sustainable options will have to be found. Not to mention the
> political costs of buying oil from our enemies.
> The best sustainable source of energy we know is the sun. The cleanest
> known way to store and utilize that energy is with hydrogen. We should not
> be comparing the costs of producing hydrogen against cheap oil. Those days
> will soon be gone. Our best bet is to find cheaper ways to harness the
> sun's energy, such as wind, wave or solar power, and to use those benefits
> to provide affordable energy.
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> At this point in time, NO ONE knows for sure how to safely store the
> stuff long term.